Should I worry? Lazy "rag doll" pig

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poppypiggy

Post   » Thu Mar 15, 2007 3:43 pm


I appologize for not having gone back to check on this tread - I am a bit absent-minded and just forgot!

Thanks for input and sympathy, everyone! It is a bit reassuring to hear that others have had the same problem with their pigs - I was starting to wonder if I was wrong trusting this vet, and that she knows less than she is willing to admit.

You probably have a good point, JaneDoe - the less an injured pig bleed, the more likely it is to survive in the wild, I would think!

Amy0204 - poor Bilbo! I hope your son didn't get too scared from the blood! I think your "long shot" is interesting, and have been thinking about the same myself. But of course - I forgot to ask the vet here or my vet relative!

But if it turns out that Poppy has low blood pressure, could that be related to a heart issue? I have no idea!


We have been to the vet again today - the results were back from the lab in Germany, and - surprise, surprise - they said nothing! No liver og kidney anomalies, no indication of cancer, no hypoproteinemy (?) or uremy (?). Trying to translate here - I don't really know what the two last words mean and how they are spelled in English !

By the way - two of Poppys toes are a bit red and swollen after all the clipping, but the vet was not conserned. I am a bit worried, though, and watch her carefully. Yesterday I soaked her feet in lukewarm water, but I don't konw if that helped.

The vets theory is Cushings disease or the other Cushings illness - can't remember what it is called, but it is the one caused by a little tumor in her hypotalamus. The strategy to try to find out is to take a new urine sample from Poppy and one from one of the others (to compare) and analyze for urine-cortisol-creatinine and proteine-ceratine (should this be creatinine as well? Funny - when I read the printout from the vet really carefully I see that it says creatitine and creatitinine, but I think she must have put too many letters in there!)

There is a callenge with this, though - we don't know what the normal values for these substances are in guinea pigs! Does anybody know if there is a page where I can find anything about this? I am really getting frustrated!

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Thu Mar 15, 2007 5:04 pm


Some norms are here:

www.guinealynx.info/norms.html

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poppypiggy

Post   » Thu Mar 15, 2007 5:17 pm


Thanks, Lynx! I found the creatinine values there, but I then am not sure what my vet ment with urine-proteine-creatinine or urine-cortisol-creatinine. Maybe the ratio? I have to ask!

If anybody has something to add I will be gratefull! I have to go to bed now (it's 22:20), but I will check up on this tread tomorrow morning!

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:07 pm


You may want to email Pinta through the mailer. I am pretty sure she has (or did have) a pig with Cushing's disease.

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poppypiggy

Post   » Fri Mar 16, 2007 5:09 am


Thank you, Talishan, I will do that!

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poppypiggy

Post   » Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:18 am


An update: I mailed Pinta as Talishan suggested, but she had used the ultrasound method to diagnose her Cushing's pig - and confirmed it by necropsy later.

Vet sent off the urine samples to the German lab, and the results came back today - my vet just phoned me, and then faxed the results over. They confirm that something is not right with Poppy, but my vet is unsure about what.

The Urine - Protein - Creatinine (UPC ratio) values are higher than in cats and dogs, and I guess that is normal. Poppy's value is 7.67 whereas the control pig (Mango - apparently healthy and about the same size and age as Poppy) has a value of 3.7, meaning that Poppy's ratio is more than the double of Mango's.

Urine - Cortisol - Creatinine (PCC ratio) analysis show a value of 80 027 in Poppy, 38 053 in Mango, making Poppy's value again more than the double of Mango's. (Actually the vet said 800 027 / 380 053 on the phone and the values above in the fax, but the relative difference is anyway the same.)

I am a bit confused here, and so is my vet, and we are not sure what is best to do next.

Vets suggestion is either a more thorough biochemical investigation along "The Cortisol Path" and/or a new ultrasound check in Oslo to confirm or rule out Cushing's, or to follow "The Protein Path" with a thorough analysis of what type of protein are present in the urine in order to conclude or exclude some type of renal failure, as I understood it. The latter is the easiest.

I also found this link http://www.vetmedpub.com/vetmed/article ... ?id=357729 that says among other things that high PCC can be an indication of congestive heart failure in cats and dogs. I am not sure if the vet knows this - I will send her the link, though.

Any thoughts or ideas?

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:19 am


I'm not good with the technical parts. But I wish you the best.

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:26 am


among other things that high PCC can be an indication of congestive heart failure in cats and dogs.
Given all her symptoms, and not to rule out Cushings, can you get your vet to give a trial of Benazepril? CHF is very common in guinea pigs, and she does have classic symptoms.

Of course she may also have something else going on, but I would think a trial of Lotensin would at least show you if CHF is an issue (and it's a strong possibility I would think). Pinta always says that many heart problems are not shown on xray but diagnosed by necropsy.

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poppypiggy

Post   » Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:41 am


Thanks, Lynx!

Mum - I have tried, and the vet is not convinced, but I can try again. But than I also wonder: If she has a kidney problem, couldn't that be significantly worse if we put her on heart meds? I got that impression from the vet, but might be wrong. Or she might be wrong.

Is Benazepril supposed to be so kind on the kidneys that it doesn't matter?

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:21 am


Email Pinta and check with her. I believe that benazepril is supposed to protect the kidneys, but you should check with Pinta as she's dealt with Cushings before.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:35 pm


Look over this page I'm working on to see if the article or veterinary comments can help persuade your vet to give your vet more info:

www.guinealynx.info/heart.html

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poppypiggy

Post   » Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:35 am


Thaks, Mum, I wil contact her!

Lynx - you are just invaluable! That page is VERY helpful! I will send the link to my vet, and also print it out and send her by snail. Thank you so much!

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