Should I worry? Lazy "rag doll" pig

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poppypiggy

Post   » Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:41 am


Thanks, Lynx!

Mum - I have tried, and the vet is not convinced, but I can try again. But than I also wonder: If she has a kidney problem, couldn't that be significantly worse if we put her on heart meds? I got that impression from the vet, but might be wrong. Or she might be wrong.

Is Benazepril supposed to be so kind on the kidneys that it doesn't matter?

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:21 am


Email Pinta and check with her. I believe that benazepril is supposed to protect the kidneys, but you should check with Pinta as she's dealt with Cushings before.

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Lynx
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Post   » Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:35 pm


Look over this page I'm working on to see if the article or veterinary comments can help persuade your vet to give your vet more info:

www.guinealynx.info/heart.html

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poppypiggy

Post   » Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:35 am


Thaks, Mum, I wil contact her!

Lynx - you are just invaluable! That page is VERY helpful! I will send the link to my vet, and also print it out and send her by snail. Thank you so much!

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Lynx
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Post   » Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:03 am


It's still a work in progress but does include some valuable info. You can thank Mum for getting advice from her vets and putting up her own info and Talishan for sending me a copy of the article to summarize.

I think Lotensin is more benign and is a better choice than enalapril.

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poppypiggy

Post   » Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:26 am


Then I say "Thank you so much, Mum and Talishan as well!"

Thanks for the tip on Lotensin!

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poppypiggy

Post   » Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:08 am


I finally got a call back from the vet yesterday!

The testresults are back, and Poppy's albumine values are very high, indicating a renal failure. And guess what? My vet suggested to put her on Fortekor for that!

I will start her on the medicine tomorrow (the pharmasy had to order it) - 0.75 mg/day. That is perhaps a bit low, but has a practical reason, as we can only get hold of 2.5 mg pills.

But now when thinking about it the vet can't be that good in math, because 2.5 / 4 is not 0.75, but 0.625! Isn't that too little? I think the usual dose is 1 mg /kg, and she is about 1.2 - 1.3 kg, so maybe half a pill is more right?

I am very excited to see if there will be any change in her behaviour - she has been very sedate lately.

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:13 am


You might get your pharmacy to compound it into a liquid.

I have mine compounded at 2mg/ml and give my pigs 1mg twice daily (which is 0.5cc if it's compounded this way).

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poppypiggy

Post   » Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:21 am


Since I have seen you have suggested that for others I have asked about that, but there are some strange rules preventing the local pharmacy from compounding medicines like yours do. It could be done by a big laboratory in Oslo, but I was told that would be very expensive. (In fact the lady said it was so expensive I should rather get an other guinea pig! - I managed to be polite - barely!)

Do you think it is possible to just dissolve a pill in some liquid and use that in stead?

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:26 am


You can compound it yourself if you're extremely careful to disolve the tablets properly.

http://www.guinealynx.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=18899

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poppypiggy

Post   » Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:51 am


Thank you - I will read the information carefully!

Edit to say: What exactly is Ora-plus and Ora-sweet? Will any liquid do?

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Lynx
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Post   » Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:08 am


It's a special compounding liquid. Perhaps you could contact a human pharmacy to see if there is anything you can purchase. Must be refrigerated after compounding (I think).

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poppypiggy

Post   » Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:13 am


Thank you, Lynx! I will ask at the pharmacy when I pick up the medicine tomorrow.

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poppypiggy

Post   » Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:33 am


A little update: I asked for compounding liquid at the pharmacy, but was referred to the lab at the local children's hospital - they *might* have something like that, I was told.

I have not contacted them yet, just dissolved half a tablet in 1 ml of water and given Poppy .5 ml, and than the rest the next day. That seems to work fine for now.

I have not been able to see any difference in Poppy's behavior, but the vet doesn't think that is to be expected for a week or two, maybe more.

The vet is a bit reluctant on the dosing, though, but we decided to continue with the low dose (.625 mg/day) for 10 - 14 days and then increase dose if no improvement occurs.

Has anybody had some experience with the use of Fortekor for renal failure?

I would very much appreciate any input on this!

By the way: The vet again said that she is *so* impressed with Guinea Lynx, and especially with the references, as that makes her assured that advice found here is not just "taken out of the air", as she said it. (I almost said "As I told you!" but managed to hold my tongue!)

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Lynx
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Post   » Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:46 pm


I found a 2005 post by Pinta:

My current kidney pig hasn't needed lasix yet but he has heart problems and is on Fortekor. Twice daily subcues for him as well.
http://www.guinealynx.info/forums/viewtopic.php?p=580322&highlight=fortekor+renal+failure#580322

Don't know the answer to your question though.

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poppypiggy

Post   » Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:18 pm


Thanks for the link! It doesn't answer my question, as you point out, but at least I think I am understanding more of the connection between heart problems and renal failure after reading it.

For now I will continue giving Poppy the low dose of Fortekor to see if she improves, and then discuss a higher dose with my vet if not.

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poppypiggy

Post   » Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:32 am


An update: Poppy has now been on Fortekor for about two months, and I am not sure if this is the right treatment, or if the dose is right.

We started out with about 1/4 of a 2.5 mg tablet a day (eq. 0.625 mg/day), given orally at bedtime. After two weeks I saw no change, and increased to 1 mg/day. I think there has been a slight improvement in her activity level after that, but I am unable to feel any difference in her "floppiness" or muscular strenght. Does anyone know if that is as expected, or should there be an improvment by know?

I talked to my vet yesterday, and she said that it could take up to 6 monthe before any apperent changes could be seen, and suggested the same medication for another 3 months, at least, before we get a new urine sample analyzed. I think this is a long time, but perhaps I am impatient?

Any suggestions would be most appreciated.

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:25 am


Your vet is correct - it can take many months for the full effects of the medication to show.

If there is even some improvement, just stick with it.

Incidentally, all my pigs get 1mg TWICE daily - once isn't enough.

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poppypiggy

Post   » Fri Jun 22, 2007 7:16 am


Thanks, mum! 2 mg/day is for heart conditions, isn't it? The vet thinks that much lower doses are neede for renal failure, but I am not sure if she really knows. Hard to know, because sometimes she is rather absentminded and not so easy to discuss with, like yesterday, and now she will be away for 3 weeks. Do you think I should just increase the dose?

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Fri Jun 22, 2007 10:53 am


I haven't read back through the thread, but wasn't there a suspicion of heart issues in addition to the renal issues?

I can't tell you how much to give. All I can tell you is that this is a twice daily med when given for heart conditions.

As I said before, I start out at 1mg twice daily and adjust slightly up or down from there, depending on how the pig handles it. Mostly they all do well at this dose.

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