Yes, I know I won't have a real answer until the tissues come back from histology. Was it that there were still issues but not as bad as they thought, or did they get in there and think "oh why am I even doing this". If there were at least signs of problems, I'll feel better.
And I'm even resigned to the fact that it's bad timing on needing a spay and having teeth problems. But I want these procedures to fix it. My main concern is - if recovery from the spay and teeth are fine -- that this will still not fix the problem since the surgery showed "not that bad". Could there be something else internally?
I love my pigs and even though I read this board before adopting, knowing what I was getting into, I still, never in my life, thought I'd encounter such serious problems. Two pigs - one with coccidia that took her life and now Henry, who isn't out of the woods. These are two Big Time problems with my two pigs. It's draining when you want to love these pets but they cause so much emotional wear.
Everyone give good thoughts to H-nugget this evening!
Henry - crusty eyes, lethargic
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Talishan
- You can quote me
Best wishes and healing vibes to H-nugget. ~~~ninja vibes~~~
The surgery was most definitely IMHO not a waste at all. There was a problem. Maybe not as 'bad as they thought', but a problem. Ditto Josephine that better to take care of it now than later.
45 deg. vs. 60 -- don't freak until you get a dental x-ray. You may or may not be in for a lifetime of trimmings. They do have a range of properly functioning dentistry, so to speak; what works best for each individual pig works best for that pig. A spur or two could be a big problem for one pig and not even noticed by another. One trim may do it. She may not even need a trim.
Our dental pig had elongated roots, with sinus problems to go with. He never had goopy eyes.
The surgery was most definitely IMHO not a waste at all. There was a problem. Maybe not as 'bad as they thought', but a problem. Ditto Josephine that better to take care of it now than later.
45 deg. vs. 60 -- don't freak until you get a dental x-ray. You may or may not be in for a lifetime of trimmings. They do have a range of properly functioning dentistry, so to speak; what works best for each individual pig works best for that pig. A spur or two could be a big problem for one pig and not even noticed by another. One trim may do it. She may not even need a trim.
Our dental pig had elongated roots, with sinus problems to go with. He never had goopy eyes.
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GP Lover
- My home, ruled by pigs!
I hope that recovery goes well. I was told years ago that Elsie had suspected pyometra and needed to be spayed. Her only symptom at the time was crying when peeing. It was so long ago I don't remember all the details.
I remember having doubts that she had that but I think it's one of those things where they don't know for sure until they go in. I am glad that she was spayed and recovery was shaky at first.
I understand why you feel like you do, especially since you went to Red Bank and are paying top dollar. But, the condition is the condition no matter where you go and like I said, until they went in for surgery I don't think any vet could have known for sure if she had it or not. Better to err on the side of caution, no?
Yes, it is discouraging when you have to deal with such serious medical issues. I feel blessed if I can get through a year or two with no vet visits but it never happens. If it wasn't for you and others like us, these poor animals would be with owners who wouldn't pay attention to them like we do and know when they need help and medical attention. You are giving them a chance. You are giving them the best life they could have. Just keep on loving them.
I remember having doubts that she had that but I think it's one of those things where they don't know for sure until they go in. I am glad that she was spayed and recovery was shaky at first.
I understand why you feel like you do, especially since you went to Red Bank and are paying top dollar. But, the condition is the condition no matter where you go and like I said, until they went in for surgery I don't think any vet could have known for sure if she had it or not. Better to err on the side of caution, no?
Yes, it is discouraging when you have to deal with such serious medical issues. I feel blessed if I can get through a year or two with no vet visits but it never happens. If it wasn't for you and others like us, these poor animals would be with owners who wouldn't pay attention to them like we do and know when they need help and medical attention. You are giving them a chance. You are giving them the best life they could have. Just keep on loving them.
From the sounds of it you were extremely lucky the suspected pyometra was not that bad. This doesn't mean you could have gotten away without spaying - it means she had a better chance of recovery and survival of the surgery.
I've had a pig with pyometra spayed and lost her because the pyometra "was that bad".
It's a shame they didn't do the molars while she was out. I don't know how many times, I've heard -"the molars aren't bad enough to stop them from eating" and found that they were bad enough. If there is a pain issue in the mouth, the gums will swell disguising the extent of the problem. This is especially true in elongated roots.
Elongated roots require severe planing - to the gumline pretty much. Sometimes, due to the swollen gums, the planing has to be done in two stages. The vet has to go back in amd finish the job once the gums have receded. Elongated roots can be arrested with the wearing of a Chin-Sling. Caught early enough the Chin-sling won't be painful. Late stage elongated roots could be too painful for the Chin-Sling to be worn since it works by forcing the molars together so the pig can self grind.
I've had a pig with pyometra spayed and lost her because the pyometra "was that bad".
It's a shame they didn't do the molars while she was out. I don't know how many times, I've heard -"the molars aren't bad enough to stop them from eating" and found that they were bad enough. If there is a pain issue in the mouth, the gums will swell disguising the extent of the problem. This is especially true in elongated roots.
Elongated roots require severe planing - to the gumline pretty much. Sometimes, due to the swollen gums, the planing has to be done in two stages. The vet has to go back in amd finish the job once the gums have receded. Elongated roots can be arrested with the wearing of a Chin-Sling. Caught early enough the Chin-sling won't be painful. Late stage elongated roots could be too painful for the Chin-Sling to be worn since it works by forcing the molars together so the pig can self grind.
It is odd they didn't do the teeth and spay at the same time. The vet seemed to think that we do the spay first, have her recover and then do the teeth. I don't know if spay pain and planing pain would be too much for Henry to handle at the same time.
I guess if it really is the teeth that's stopping her from eating, this spay isn't going to make her feel better enough to start eating on her own, which is what I need for her to do.
I'll ask the doc about the teeth today - how do they know what they know, did they take an xray? Etc. My doc isn't in, but another one will call me. If she can't answer, I'll just wait until mines back. Will a vet SEE that the gums are swollen? I guess the vet will know everything that you mentioned Pinta, no?
But the thing is, Henry was eating on her own just fine up until we put her on the Cipro. I was convinced the Cipro made her stop, unless we just have another coincidence.
I guess if it really is the teeth that's stopping her from eating, this spay isn't going to make her feel better enough to start eating on her own, which is what I need for her to do.
I'll ask the doc about the teeth today - how do they know what they know, did they take an xray? Etc. My doc isn't in, but another one will call me. If she can't answer, I'll just wait until mines back. Will a vet SEE that the gums are swollen? I guess the vet will know everything that you mentioned Pinta, no?
But the thing is, Henry was eating on her own just fine up until we put her on the Cipro. I was convinced the Cipro made her stop, unless we just have another coincidence.
Dr. Strunk is out today, but Dr. Brown gave me a call. Henry is doing fine and will be coming home with us tonight. I do realize that what *I* consider fine might not be in line with what they consider fine. I will probably freak out because she's not acting normal, but I trust that the vet thinks she's at least doing normally considering the situation.
They mentioned that they found "free fluid in the abdomen" which they sent out for testing too. She can't seem to tell me what that means exactly, but the tests will tell us if it's something or nothing at all. She said not to panic (yeah right) because it could come back as nothing.
Our old friend mammary mass: she said there was a lot of fatty tissue near the ligaments that held the uterus in place so that could have been what they were feeling when they thought they were feeling lymph nodes, masses, whatever else.
I asked her why ultrasound showed emergency while the procedure did not. She said that while the uterus didn't look gross to the naked eye, but the ultrasound shows things on the microscopic level that we wouldn't be able to see, and based on that, the surgery was necessary.
They didn't do the teeth at the same time because she didn't want to cause additional mouth pain since we don't officially know she has a teeth problem. She wanted to do the spay, see if that made her feel better, then tackle the teeth. Since - before all of this - I never mentioned teeth and said she only stopped eating when she started the Cipro, teeth might not be the reason she stopped eating. I also need to ask how she knows the roots are growing into the jaw, because I don't think she can know that without an xray right?
I don't have a petstore cage to put her in so I'll be making her a mini CC cage. How big should it be? 1x2? 1x3? And how can I make sure I'm not hurting her when I pick her up to weigh her and hand feed her? I don't want to rip anything or make it worse.
I've read over the post-op pages and whatnot, but I'm still quite nervous.
They mentioned that they found "free fluid in the abdomen" which they sent out for testing too. She can't seem to tell me what that means exactly, but the tests will tell us if it's something or nothing at all. She said not to panic (yeah right) because it could come back as nothing.
Our old friend mammary mass: she said there was a lot of fatty tissue near the ligaments that held the uterus in place so that could have been what they were feeling when they thought they were feeling lymph nodes, masses, whatever else.
I asked her why ultrasound showed emergency while the procedure did not. She said that while the uterus didn't look gross to the naked eye, but the ultrasound shows things on the microscopic level that we wouldn't be able to see, and based on that, the surgery was necessary.
They didn't do the teeth at the same time because she didn't want to cause additional mouth pain since we don't officially know she has a teeth problem. She wanted to do the spay, see if that made her feel better, then tackle the teeth. Since - before all of this - I never mentioned teeth and said she only stopped eating when she started the Cipro, teeth might not be the reason she stopped eating. I also need to ask how she knows the roots are growing into the jaw, because I don't think she can know that without an xray right?
I don't have a petstore cage to put her in so I'll be making her a mini CC cage. How big should it be? 1x2? 1x3? And how can I make sure I'm not hurting her when I pick her up to weigh her and hand feed her? I don't want to rip anything or make it worse.
I've read over the post-op pages and whatnot, but I'm still quite nervous.
She needs dental xrays to diagnose elongated roots. A full mouth exam under sedation should also be done.
I would question why they didn't do a mouth exam while she was under sedation. That does seem like an opportunity lost. Maybe she couldn't afford to be under any longe? My vet has not done dental while working on another problem due to the pig showing problems under sedation.
If she hasn't been eating for some time, the teeth may have overgrown.
I would question why they didn't do a mouth exam while she was under sedation. That does seem like an opportunity lost. Maybe she couldn't afford to be under any longe? My vet has not done dental while working on another problem due to the pig showing problems under sedation.
If she hasn't been eating for some time, the teeth may have overgrown.
They didn't do the teeth at the same time because she didn't want to cause additional mouth pain. I don't officially know she has a teeth problem because she only stopped eating when she started the Cipro. I attributed the non-eating to antibiotic intolerance. She does have increased angulation on the back molar, it's 60 degrees while the other is 45 degrees. It might be enough to do her in, but it might not.
Tonight I will ask how they know it's elongated roots and if they have a dental x-ray.
I think she stopped eating on her own on...probably for a week now. Sanford wasn't eating on her own for much longer and never had a teeth problem, although I know each pig is different.
Tonight I will ask how they know it's elongated roots and if they have a dental x-ray.
I think she stopped eating on her own on...probably for a week now. Sanford wasn't eating on her own for much longer and never had a teeth problem, although I know each pig is different.
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Talishan
- You can quote me
1. For a surgery as invasive as a spay, I'd make her a 1x2. I'm sure Henry would much prefer you listen to Mum, but there's an awful lot of adhesion opportunity with the amount of digging around they had to do. We've used 2x2's for short-term quarantine and 'holding cells' until I could rearrange cages, and there is still a moderate (not sufficient, but moderate) amount of room for them to move around in.
2. In my experience they didn't do both procedures at the same time primarily to minimize the amount of time she was under sedation. Surgery as invasive as a spay is pushing the envelope as it is. I agree with Pinta, though ... it would have been nice if they would have at least examined her mouth and possibly snapped a dental x-ray.
3. "Will a vet SEE that the gums are swollen? I guess the vet will know everything that you mentioned Pinta, no?"
Sigh. No. Not necessarily. Gums swollen enough to hide malocclusion is not something they see every day.
Will they listen to good-quality lay experience? If so, print this thread and take it with you when Henry does have a dental exam.
2. In my experience they didn't do both procedures at the same time primarily to minimize the amount of time she was under sedation. Surgery as invasive as a spay is pushing the envelope as it is. I agree with Pinta, though ... it would have been nice if they would have at least examined her mouth and possibly snapped a dental x-ray.
3. "Will a vet SEE that the gums are swollen? I guess the vet will know everything that you mentioned Pinta, no?"
Sigh. No. Not necessarily. Gums swollen enough to hide malocclusion is not something they see every day.
Will they listen to good-quality lay experience? If so, print this thread and take it with you when Henry does have a dental exam.
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