Timmay - choking with handfeeding

PigHerder

Post   » Wed May 16, 2007 8:47 pm


Timmay was a classroom pet who was dropped by a child during weekend care. He came into the vet on 05.09 with hind end paralysis. He also had very minor crusty eyes. An xray was done and there were no obvious spinal fractures. He was prescribed 0.07cc meloxicam q24h and given .2 ml dex phos IM. Parasites were visible and he is being treated with ivermectin.

His eyes seem to have cleared up quickly with the use of triple antibiotic ointment applied q12h.

Timmay has since shown minor movement in his right hind leg, but continues to drag his back half. A cart is being constructed per pinta's post, which he'll make use of once out of quarantine.

During the last week, Timmay has lost approximately 2 ounces. Yesterday he was given 25cc of CC as a supplement and lost .9 ounces. Today he's been on steady handfeeding. He does still eat and drink, just not enough. Today I noticed that he may be aspirating some of his CC, despite his head being in a good position and food not going faster than he can swallow. He does not choke during the feeding, but anywhere from 30 seconds to several minutes afterwards, so he might be fine and 3-4 minutes later make choking/coughing noises.

The position used to feed him is on all fours with his head held steady and tilted up a little bit (but not straight up). The CC is not overly watery. I prefer it as thick as will suck up in the syringe gracefully. I have hand fed multiple piggies and not had this issue before. His paralysis does not affect above his mid-back, so I am not sure what is going on with him.

Thanks in advance for suggestions of what may be going on and where to go from here.

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Wed May 16, 2007 9:44 pm


What's your best guess on how old he is?

It sounds almost as if there is something preventing, or restricting, the passage of food through his esophagus, stomach, and/or on into his lower GI tract.

Can the vet take another look at the x-ray done on the 9th, but this time focus on anything else anomalous, like a potential mass or obstruction? My other guess would be some neurological damage from the fall that's affecting his digestion. One of our vets told me once that there is a bundle of major nerves, governing everything from mobility to digestion, that come together approximately where our lower back would be.

If that area was damaged in the fall, perhaps this will get better as his mobility improves.

Bless you for taking him and helping him.

PigHerder

Post   » Wed May 16, 2007 9:58 pm


His chart states that he's about 3 years old.

I didn't know about the bundle of nerves in the back - that's a very interesting idea. Once the food gets in, he has very healthy output. I was very pleased when I picked him up that he had no impaction issues (the last back case had a serious impaction issue which has lessened with time).

I will call the vet tomorrow (different one than the one who saved him from euthanasia, but even more experienced) and have him give another look at the xray.

There was no way I could not help this guy. He would have absolutely been put down if I had not and he seemed to be in such good health (good quality of life) at the time, other than needing a set of wheels.

I've got a little bit of a bad feeling at the moment. It would suck so much to lose this guy. I just don't like the general trend and the choking thing. I was thinking if it was a neurological thing and he's having difficulty swallowing because his brain was scrambled, it would be so awful to put him down and there wouldn't be much recourse.

Quick rant: I think it would have been an excellent classroom lesson to keep Timmay and have the class build him a mobility device. It would really teach "living with consequences of our actions."

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Wed May 16, 2007 10:05 pm


I empathize with your rant, but I'm very glad he's out of there.

I'd rather the vet that saved him from euthanasia convince the school district to eliminate animals in the classroom.

There's another possibility, albeit a little unlikely -- maybe his body is just having to adjust to relatively large, relatively steady amounts of good food. You know he hasn't had that up to now.

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sus4rabbitsnpigs

Post   » Wed May 16, 2007 10:23 pm


Have his teeth been checked? How did his heart look on x ray?

PigHerder

Post   » Thu May 17, 2007 2:21 am


His teeth were not checked thoroughly. I suspect they were so busy looking for broken bones that they did not ogle his heart. I've got a call into the vet to have a second look at that xray.

Talishan: Good point about animals in the classroom. You may have a point about large amounts of food, but since he's been increasingly eating and drinking less, I just think something is wrong. I pushed him some fluids tonight because he barely touched his water today and he was a great drinker when he first came in.

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Thu May 17, 2007 10:33 pm


How much does he weigh and what is the concentration of your Metacam?

You may be able to give him more than 0.07 cc. It might be worth an experiment to see if a higher dose of the NSAID helps him.

He is no longer on dex, correct? You can't mix an NSAID and a steroid.

PigHerder

Post   » Thu May 17, 2007 10:43 pm


After waiting all day, I missed the vet's call by 1 second! Grrrr. So he said he checked the xray and that *maybe* there are a couple of "chest vertebrae" out of alignment. He went on to say that if there isn't rapid improvement, the prognosis of paralyzed piggies is bad. Actually, this pig HAS has minor improvement... he can twitch his right hind leg, so signal is getting through at least to one side. I don't think he entirely understood the Timmay is declining and that I'm not worried about paralysis, I'm worried about his lack of eating. We do have an appt next Wednesday, but until then. we're going through the weekend.

Just to complicate matters, Timmay has quit drinking so I've been giving subcues and today he pulled the IV extension set out of the needle, so the end touched his hair. Now that it's not sterile anymore, I'm in the awkward position of either disinfecting it the best I can or syringing fluids every two hours until either Wednesday or when he magically starts drinking again. I was hoping I could persuade this doc to call in a set over at the clinic near me so I could pick it up tomorrow at least, but now... what to do?

I could also just directly inject him with the 35cc syringe, but I'm not sure my IV skillz0rz are that elite. It'd be better than nothing, but eek.

Ideas, people? I don't want to lose this guy. I'll euthanize him if he's suffering, but I want him to pull through. He was *fine* last week, what am I not doing?

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Thu May 17, 2007 10:56 pm


" ... what am I not doing?"

Not necessarily anything. I would think the 'couple of chest vertebrae out of alignment' could possibly affect his eating and drinking as you are describing.

I agree with you (and disagree with your vet). The 'prognosis' for paralyzed guinea pigs isn't good ... if you expect a 100% return to complete normal health. They can and do regain some of their mobility. Otherwise, they'll need special care and your vet may be assuming this is not 'acceptable', since many folks would, unfortunately, feel that way.

Well, not you.

Can you boil, and thus reuse, the needle and extension set? Then get him to call you in a set over at the clinic by you.

PigHerder

Post   » Thu May 17, 2007 11:08 pm


I believe the extension set would melt fairly quickly. If I were careful, I may be able to boil just the tips by holding them really carefully in the water, but I wasn't sure if that would be enough. The rest is just thin hose and it gets pretty soft just by putting hot water on it. Assuming I manage to get ahold of him tomorrow, he won't call til after business hours, so if I am lucky, the best I'll do is to get another set on saturday. Will boiling the tips (for 5 minutes? 30?) be enough to kill the germs?

Oh, did I mention I have to ask him to do the shady thing of ordering it in a different pig's name (one he's never seen), because the place by my house won't fill a prescription for an animal they've not seen? Bleah. I suspect all of this may not be as crazy as I feel like, because i've also got 2-3 other major events going on in my life right now. Every tiny straw feels like another 50 pounds. :)

I suspect you are right about the standards he is applying. I think most of what he said boiled down to "yeah, a paralyzed pig is going to be... paralyzed." He even said "Just like Christopher Reeve." Well, DUH. I think this pig will improve eventually, and if he doesn't, it doesn't matter... as long as he quits declining. He is actually eating some small amount of hay still, but refuses other foods. It doesn't help that I think his molars are too long. When he chews that syringe, he really mashes it good. With a new syringe *every* feeding, I may run out in a few days/week! But if it were only his teeth, he would have not been eating anything when he came in.

More determined than ever.
Last edited by PigHerder on Thu May 17, 2007 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Thu May 17, 2007 11:14 pm


I'm going to say 7 minutes would be okay on the tips. A guess only! I'm pretty sure Pinta has done this. Search for "boil" with Pinta as the author. There's 7 posts there and I think a couple give details.

Christopher Reeve did a hell of a lot of good from that wheelchair. Just sayin.

PigHerder

Post   » Thu May 17, 2007 11:27 pm


ahh. I saw posts about boiling needles, but didn't know it would apply equally to plastic items. Thanks.

I think he thought I expected Timmay to get up and walk after a week and I was panicking when he wasn't. He was still focused on the spinal injury when that's not what I was really interested in. I wanted to know if there had been some other internal injury that was perhaps missed in all the attention to the bones.

This vet is not as familiar with me as the one who entrusted Timmay to me, so he has no idea of my expectations or sort of care I give. The other vet has gone on maternity leave.

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