Ah, gotcha.
Henry eats Oxbow. When I buy veggies tomorrow I will try the new diet out and see how this works. But regardless, the crystals need to be flushed. I know I won't see any improvement until then. I can't believe this all started with eye goop and a run to the ER vet four months ago.
Uggghhhhh.
Henry - crusty eyes, lethargic
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salana
- GL is Just Peachy
Yes, Cuddles was much more comfortable and peeing less blood after she had the sludge flushed from her bladder.
If you can, somechick, you might want to consider orchard grass hay instead of timothy. It has a lower calcium content (but is still at a good ratio, at 1.5:1).
If you can, somechick, you might want to consider orchard grass hay instead of timothy. It has a lower calcium content (but is still at a good ratio, at 1.5:1).
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Joannt
- Wheekness for Pigs
Just thought I'd chime in...
Had a chat with the vet yesterday about bladder stones. I took Evelyn in for a well-pig check. She was pronounced a healthy 5 year old piggie. We are fortunate that we have not had a recurrence of the bladder stones that we had 10 months ago.
I took the opportunity to chat at length with him about the likelihood of reccurence - particularly given Evey's age. Obviously we talked a bit specifically about Evey but we also talked about some general trends. He was telling me about recurrence in boars in particular (since impaction of stones and sludge is more likely simply due to anatomy). I know you are all really knowledgeable and I hope this isn't repetitive but I thought I'd share...
One thing that he mentioned was that in some pigs (particularly males), they find that even if you cut back to a low calcium pellet, that sometimes even that isn't enough for a pig with a chronic problem. Sometimes, they will see improvement by reducing the pellet intake significantly and at worst, weaning down to an all hay diet. He mentioned that obviously for the gut, you like to feed balanced, fresh veggies and pellets but if the pig is constantly throwing stones or troublesome sludge, a drastic measure is to work towards an all hay approach. Vitamin C supplementation should continue. Obviously if you find a workable balance in between, all the better.
That being said, he said it would result in weight loss, so it is important to look at the big picture/whole pig and judge if it is a reasonable thing to try. If the pig is reasonably healthy otherwise and certainly if they were big, the pig would likely tolerate it better.
He also mentioned that as pigs get old, a significant problem is a failure to empty the bladder completely due to less muscle tone. As a result, keeping the urine as low in calcium as possible helps a pig that has this particular problem. Encouraging drinking is good here as it tends to keep the urine a bit more dilute and less likely to precipitate sludge/stones. I didn't ask about drugs to improve their bladder tone (something like Detrol) ...don't know if such a thing has been tried in pigs.
I hope Henry is doing better.
Joann
Had a chat with the vet yesterday about bladder stones. I took Evelyn in for a well-pig check. She was pronounced a healthy 5 year old piggie. We are fortunate that we have not had a recurrence of the bladder stones that we had 10 months ago.
I took the opportunity to chat at length with him about the likelihood of reccurence - particularly given Evey's age. Obviously we talked a bit specifically about Evey but we also talked about some general trends. He was telling me about recurrence in boars in particular (since impaction of stones and sludge is more likely simply due to anatomy). I know you are all really knowledgeable and I hope this isn't repetitive but I thought I'd share...
One thing that he mentioned was that in some pigs (particularly males), they find that even if you cut back to a low calcium pellet, that sometimes even that isn't enough for a pig with a chronic problem. Sometimes, they will see improvement by reducing the pellet intake significantly and at worst, weaning down to an all hay diet. He mentioned that obviously for the gut, you like to feed balanced, fresh veggies and pellets but if the pig is constantly throwing stones or troublesome sludge, a drastic measure is to work towards an all hay approach. Vitamin C supplementation should continue. Obviously if you find a workable balance in between, all the better.
That being said, he said it would result in weight loss, so it is important to look at the big picture/whole pig and judge if it is a reasonable thing to try. If the pig is reasonably healthy otherwise and certainly if they were big, the pig would likely tolerate it better.
He also mentioned that as pigs get old, a significant problem is a failure to empty the bladder completely due to less muscle tone. As a result, keeping the urine as low in calcium as possible helps a pig that has this particular problem. Encouraging drinking is good here as it tends to keep the urine a bit more dilute and less likely to precipitate sludge/stones. I didn't ask about drugs to improve their bladder tone (something like Detrol) ...don't know if such a thing has been tried in pigs.
I hope Henry is doing better.
Joann
My pigs all get Oxbow orchard grass. For one, it's so much softer so I buy it because they like to burrow and I don't want any stabbed eyeballs; and two, they actually seem to like it better.
Interesting Joannt. Henry is female and less than 2 years old, so I definitely wouldn't call her old by any means. But hey, maybe she's just susceptible to this kind of stuff. And if she's not eating pellets, but is switching herself to a hay/veggie only diet - I'm willing to see some weight loss, but I'd expect stabilization at some point. Pre-surgery she was 2lb 3oz. Post-op she was 2lb, and now she's 1lb 13oz. She just keeps losing.
After taking the stitches out about a month ago, she stabilized at 1lb 14oz and change and she was that way for awhile, until now.
Well, we'll see what this flushing does for her. Thanks for the input everyone.
Interesting Joannt. Henry is female and less than 2 years old, so I definitely wouldn't call her old by any means. But hey, maybe she's just susceptible to this kind of stuff. And if she's not eating pellets, but is switching herself to a hay/veggie only diet - I'm willing to see some weight loss, but I'd expect stabilization at some point. Pre-surgery she was 2lb 3oz. Post-op she was 2lb, and now she's 1lb 13oz. She just keeps losing.
After taking the stitches out about a month ago, she stabilized at 1lb 14oz and change and she was that way for awhile, until now.
Well, we'll see what this flushing does for her. Thanks for the input everyone.
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Talishan
- You can quote me
"I have to put it under the tongue ..."
?!?!
Draw the correct dose (if it's injectable, it'll probably be a miniscule amount), mix it with water, fruit juice, Pedialyte etc. and administer it orally.
Double-check this with Josephine, but I know of no reason it can't go through her GI tract. It will work much more quickly sublingual, but I think it's perfectly okay to administer it orally.
?!?!
Draw the correct dose (if it's injectable, it'll probably be a miniscule amount), mix it with water, fruit juice, Pedialyte etc. and administer it orally.
Double-check this with Josephine, but I know of no reason it can't go through her GI tract. It will work much more quickly sublingual, but I think it's perfectly okay to administer it orally.
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Talishan
- You can quote me
Take a 1 cc or 0.5 cc syringe and fill with the appropriate dose. If you have access to Baxa syringes, their tips are more rounded and less sharp.
Then, go in, in back of the incisors but in front of the molars, like you would for forcefeeding ... but don't make the turn to straighten out back, toward the molars and back of the throat. At this point the syringe should be pointed just about right at the buccal pad on the cheek opposite the point you're going in.
Gently and slowly depress the plunger. I'd try wiggling it around a little bit to try to 'smear' it, if that's possible.
If you don't have Baxas, be careful. Monoject et al can have pretty sharp points.
I have never done this, I'm just trying to visualize. Let us know if it (or anything) works.
Then, go in, in back of the incisors but in front of the molars, like you would for forcefeeding ... but don't make the turn to straighten out back, toward the molars and back of the throat. At this point the syringe should be pointed just about right at the buccal pad on the cheek opposite the point you're going in.
Gently and slowly depress the plunger. I'd try wiggling it around a little bit to try to 'smear' it, if that's possible.
If you don't have Baxas, be careful. Monoject et al can have pretty sharp points.
I have never done this, I'm just trying to visualize. Let us know if it (or anything) works.
Okay. We have some e-coli now that was shown on a culture. Giving Bactrim for that. But Dr. D doesn't think that's really related to all of this crying stuff, since her bladder walls are still really thick.
Out of desperation, I found this natural healing vet near me. I don't know anything about homeopathics so this stuff seems bizzare to me. I'm not all that into alternative medicine because I feel like I can't get my head around it.
This doc gave me Homeopathic 'Berberis Homaccord' and 'Traumeel' for pain. What *is* this stuff? Is it safe? Normal to use? The doc says yes, but can I trust her? She didn't seem like an idiot, but since I don't know about this stuff, I don't know if she knows what she's talking about or not. She's not science-y so I can't open a book and say "no you gave me penicillin, that's not okay". This is foreign, and therefore scary to me.
Anyone got anything?
Edit: when I look this stuff up online, it doesn't seem to give any side effects or cautions. And when it tells me what's in it, it's just a bunch of big words. So I guess that's also why I'm nervous, I just can't understand it.
Out of desperation, I found this natural healing vet near me. I don't know anything about homeopathics so this stuff seems bizzare to me. I'm not all that into alternative medicine because I feel like I can't get my head around it.
This doc gave me Homeopathic 'Berberis Homaccord' and 'Traumeel' for pain. What *is* this stuff? Is it safe? Normal to use? The doc says yes, but can I trust her? She didn't seem like an idiot, but since I don't know about this stuff, I don't know if she knows what she's talking about or not. She's not science-y so I can't open a book and say "no you gave me penicillin, that's not okay". This is foreign, and therefore scary to me.
Anyone got anything?
Edit: when I look this stuff up online, it doesn't seem to give any side effects or cautions. And when it tells me what's in it, it's just a bunch of big words. So I guess that's also why I'm nervous, I just can't understand it.