Henry - crusty eyes, lethargic

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somechick

Post   » Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:17 am


Thanks everyone, I will check out different ratios and meals for Henry. She has not had any previous stones so I guess I don't know if they're oxalate or carbonate. Hopefully nothing else major will show up on Tuesday and we can flush this out.

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Sef
I dissent.

Post   » Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:53 am


With Zachary (who has I/C), I can't change one damned thing in his diet or he'll start bleeding. So they all get:

green leaf lettuce
red leaf lettuce
endive
Boston lettuce

That's pretty much it. I'll occasionally add a little grape tomato, and that seems well tolerated. Sometimes a little corn husk. Zero fruit. Zero romaine.

Can't remember...what pellet are your pigs on?

GP Lover
My home, ruled by pigs!

Post   » Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:57 am


I would continue to give her the shilintong. I hope she gets relief and soon.

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Thu Sep 20, 2007 6:25 pm


IIRC = if I recall correctly

I'm hoping the flush will do the trick, actually.

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somechick

Post   » Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:03 pm


Ah, gotcha.

Henry eats Oxbow. When I buy veggies tomorrow I will try the new diet out and see how this works. But regardless, the crystals need to be flushed. I know I won't see any improvement until then. I can't believe this all started with eye goop and a run to the ER vet four months ago.

Uggghhhhh.

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:54 pm


All I can think is that if I had sandpaper in my urethra and someone flushed it out, I'd sure feel a hell of a lot better.

Hope it works for Henry.

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salana
GL is Just Peachy

Post   » Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:11 pm


Yes, Cuddles was much more comfortable and peeing less blood after she had the sludge flushed from her bladder.

If you can, somechick, you might want to consider orchard grass hay instead of timothy. It has a lower calcium content (but is still at a good ratio, at 1.5:1).

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Sef
I dissent.

Post   » Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:43 pm


Oy! I didn't even think about hay.

Speaking of Shilintong, I faxed over the GL page on Shilintong to my vet yesterday, and she said it sounded like a good idea for any pig with bladder issues. Just sayin. :}

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:07 pm


I think KM's bluegrass is an orchard grass hay, if Henry likes it. American Pet Diner's mountain grass hay is also an orchard grass. Quality and palatability vary but our group has really enjoyed the last several bags of it I've gotten.

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Sef
I dissent.

Post   » Fri Sep 21, 2007 2:47 pm


As usual, this Ca:P thing has me confused. Wouldn't timothy actually be better, just based on the ratio? (closer to 2:1 is what I'm trying to say):

1.7:1 -- Timothy
1.5:1 -- Orchardgrass

Joannt
Wheekness for Pigs

Post   » Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:18 pm


Just thought I'd chime in...

Had a chat with the vet yesterday about bladder stones. I took Evelyn in for a well-pig check. She was pronounced a healthy 5 year old piggie. We are fortunate that we have not had a recurrence of the bladder stones that we had 10 months ago.

I took the opportunity to chat at length with him about the likelihood of reccurence - particularly given Evey's age. Obviously we talked a bit specifically about Evey but we also talked about some general trends. He was telling me about recurrence in boars in particular (since impaction of stones and sludge is more likely simply due to anatomy). I know you are all really knowledgeable and I hope this isn't repetitive but I thought I'd share...

One thing that he mentioned was that in some pigs (particularly males), they find that even if you cut back to a low calcium pellet, that sometimes even that isn't enough for a pig with a chronic problem. Sometimes, they will see improvement by reducing the pellet intake significantly and at worst, weaning down to an all hay diet. He mentioned that obviously for the gut, you like to feed balanced, fresh veggies and pellets but if the pig is constantly throwing stones or troublesome sludge, a drastic measure is to work towards an all hay approach. Vitamin C supplementation should continue. Obviously if you find a workable balance in between, all the better.

That being said, he said it would result in weight loss, so it is important to look at the big picture/whole pig and judge if it is a reasonable thing to try. If the pig is reasonably healthy otherwise and certainly if they were big, the pig would likely tolerate it better.

He also mentioned that as pigs get old, a significant problem is a failure to empty the bladder completely due to less muscle tone. As a result, keeping the urine as low in calcium as possible helps a pig that has this particular problem. Encouraging drinking is good here as it tends to keep the urine a bit more dilute and less likely to precipitate sludge/stones. I didn't ask about drugs to improve their bladder tone (something like Detrol) ...don't know if such a thing has been tried in pigs.

I hope Henry is doing better.

Joann

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salana
GL is Just Peachy

Post   » Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:28 pm


Anything between 1.5:1 and 2:1 is good, but timothy has a higher amount of calcium (not just a higher ratio).

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