Henry - crusty eyes, lethargic

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somechick

Post   » Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:03 pm


Ah, gotcha.

Henry eats Oxbow. When I buy veggies tomorrow I will try the new diet out and see how this works. But regardless, the crystals need to be flushed. I know I won't see any improvement until then. I can't believe this all started with eye goop and a run to the ER vet four months ago.

Uggghhhhh.

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:54 pm


All I can think is that if I had sandpaper in my urethra and someone flushed it out, I'd sure feel a hell of a lot better.

Hope it works for Henry.

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salana
GL is Just Peachy

Post   » Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:11 pm


Yes, Cuddles was much more comfortable and peeing less blood after she had the sludge flushed from her bladder.

If you can, somechick, you might want to consider orchard grass hay instead of timothy. It has a lower calcium content (but is still at a good ratio, at 1.5:1).

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sef1268

Post   » Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:43 pm


Oy! I didn't even think about hay.

Speaking of Shilintong, I faxed over the GL page on Shilintong to my vet yesterday, and she said it sounded like a good idea for any pig with bladder issues. Just sayin. :}

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:07 pm


I think KM's bluegrass is an orchard grass hay, if Henry likes it. American Pet Diner's mountain grass hay is also an orchard grass. Quality and palatability vary but our group has really enjoyed the last several bags of it I've gotten.

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sef1268

Post   » Fri Sep 21, 2007 2:47 pm


As usual, this Ca:P thing has me confused. Wouldn't timothy actually be better, just based on the ratio? (closer to 2:1 is what I'm trying to say):

1.7:1 -- Timothy
1.5:1 -- Orchardgrass

Joannt
Wheekness for Pigs

Post   » Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:18 pm


Just thought I'd chime in...

Had a chat with the vet yesterday about bladder stones. I took Evelyn in for a well-pig check. She was pronounced a healthy 5 year old piggie. We are fortunate that we have not had a recurrence of the bladder stones that we had 10 months ago.

I took the opportunity to chat at length with him about the likelihood of reccurence - particularly given Evey's age. Obviously we talked a bit specifically about Evey but we also talked about some general trends. He was telling me about recurrence in boars in particular (since impaction of stones and sludge is more likely simply due to anatomy). I know you are all really knowledgeable and I hope this isn't repetitive but I thought I'd share...

One thing that he mentioned was that in some pigs (particularly males), they find that even if you cut back to a low calcium pellet, that sometimes even that isn't enough for a pig with a chronic problem. Sometimes, they will see improvement by reducing the pellet intake significantly and at worst, weaning down to an all hay diet. He mentioned that obviously for the gut, you like to feed balanced, fresh veggies and pellets but if the pig is constantly throwing stones or troublesome sludge, a drastic measure is to work towards an all hay approach. Vitamin C supplementation should continue. Obviously if you find a workable balance in between, all the better.

That being said, he said it would result in weight loss, so it is important to look at the big picture/whole pig and judge if it is a reasonable thing to try. If the pig is reasonably healthy otherwise and certainly if they were big, the pig would likely tolerate it better.

He also mentioned that as pigs get old, a significant problem is a failure to empty the bladder completely due to less muscle tone. As a result, keeping the urine as low in calcium as possible helps a pig that has this particular problem. Encouraging drinking is good here as it tends to keep the urine a bit more dilute and less likely to precipitate sludge/stones. I didn't ask about drugs to improve their bladder tone (something like Detrol) ...don't know if such a thing has been tried in pigs.

I hope Henry is doing better.

Joann

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salana
GL is Just Peachy

Post   » Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:28 pm


Anything between 1.5:1 and 2:1 is good, but timothy has a higher amount of calcium (not just a higher ratio).

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somechick

Post   » Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:35 pm


My pigs all get Oxbow orchard grass. For one, it's so much softer so I buy it because they like to burrow and I don't want any stabbed eyeballs; and two, they actually seem to like it better.

Interesting Joannt. Henry is female and less than 2 years old, so I definitely wouldn't call her old by any means. But hey, maybe she's just susceptible to this kind of stuff. And if she's not eating pellets, but is switching herself to a hay/veggie only diet - I'm willing to see some weight loss, but I'd expect stabilization at some point. Pre-surgery she was 2lb 3oz. Post-op she was 2lb, and now she's 1lb 13oz. She just keeps losing.

After taking the stitches out about a month ago, she stabilized at 1lb 14oz and change and she was that way for awhile, until now.

Well, we'll see what this flushing does for her. Thanks for the input everyone.

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somechick

Post   » Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:18 pm


So I have some bupronex here. But the vet keeps telling me that if I don't inject it, I have to put it under the tongue. How can I get under a pigs tongue? Won't it work if I just syringe it like other meds?

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sef1268

Post   » Sat Sep 29, 2007 6:45 pm


I'm sorry Henry is not doing too well, SC. Can you squirt it under her tongue with a 1cc syringe?

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Sat Sep 29, 2007 7:39 pm


"I have to put it under the tongue ..."

?!?!

Draw the correct dose (if it's injectable, it'll probably be a miniscule amount), mix it with water, fruit juice, Pedialyte etc. and administer it orally.

Double-check this with Josephine, but I know of no reason it can't go through her GI tract. It will work much more quickly sublingual, but I think it's perfectly okay to administer it orally.

Josephine
Little Jo Wheek

Post   » Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:45 pm


Works much better either sublingually or transbuccally (applied to the inside of the cheeks or mucous membranes).

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somechick

Post   » Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:55 am


Right, this is what I know too. But my issue is: how on earth do I get *under* a piggie tongue!? :)

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sef1268

Post   » Sun Sep 30, 2007 2:03 pm


Wish I could offer advice. I think Torbugesic is absorbed better under the tongue, too, but if it's any consolation, I just administered it orally via syringe. I know it was absorbed into his system, because it has totally screwed up his GI tract. :(

pinta

Post   » Sun Sep 30, 2007 5:05 pm


or transbuccally (applied to the inside of the cheeks or
mucous membranes).

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:29 pm


Take a 1 cc or 0.5 cc syringe and fill with the appropriate dose. If you have access to Baxa syringes, their tips are more rounded and less sharp.

Then, go in, in back of the incisors but in front of the molars, like you would for forcefeeding ... but don't make the turn to straighten out back, toward the molars and back of the throat. At this point the syringe should be pointed just about right at the buccal pad on the cheek opposite the point you're going in.

Gently and slowly depress the plunger. I'd try wiggling it around a little bit to try to 'smear' it, if that's possible.

If you don't have Baxas, be careful. Monoject et al can have pretty sharp points.

I have never done this, I'm just trying to visualize. Let us know if it (or anything) works.

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somechick

Post   » Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:18 am


I have the Baxa's. Well, I don't know. Gave it to her again yesterday afternoon, but I'm wondering if it has a negative effect on her. Saturday she seemed out of it for a little bit, but yesterday she was out of it ALL evening. I'm going to try to not give it today if she can manage.

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Mon Oct 01, 2007 6:44 pm


Or give her less. In my experience the opiates work linearly -- that is, a little has a little effect, a lot has a lot.

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somechick

Post   » Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:33 am


Okay. We have some e-coli now that was shown on a culture. Giving Bactrim for that. But Dr. D doesn't think that's really related to all of this crying stuff, since her bladder walls are still really thick.

Out of desperation, I found this natural healing vet near me. I don't know anything about homeopathics so this stuff seems bizzare to me. I'm not all that into alternative medicine because I feel like I can't get my head around it.

This doc gave me Homeopathic 'Berberis Homaccord' and 'Traumeel' for pain. What *is* this stuff? Is it safe? Normal to use? The doc says yes, but can I trust her? She didn't seem like an idiot, but since I don't know about this stuff, I don't know if she knows what she's talking about or not. She's not science-y so I can't open a book and say "no you gave me penicillin, that's not okay". This is foreign, and therefore scary to me.

Anyone got anything?

Edit: when I look this stuff up online, it doesn't seem to give any side effects or cautions. And when it tells me what's in it, it's just a bunch of big words. So I guess that's also why I'm nervous, I just can't understand it.

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