Henry - crusty eyes, lethargic

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:19 am


E. coli can be very hard to get rid of.

Did you get a sensitivity report, and if so was the Bactrim mentioned?

I know that Pigginess had a very hard time getting rid of this, and eventually had to resort to Azithromycin (only as a last resort) to kill it off.

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somechick

Post   » Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:27 am


Well Dr. D said it was sensitive to Bactrim, and she's pretty good so I'll assume that yes we did get a report and it said that. But I'll double check anyway. Henry was on azithromycin before and she didn't tolerate it at all - same as when she doesn't tolerate the Baytril and Cipro, etc. So let's hope this works.

Should I treat all the pigs for e. coli? How does one GET e. coli anyway? Why do I always get the weird diseases, coccidia and now this.

But that aside, if anyone has any info about the homeopathic stuff, that'd be great.

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Piggster

Post   » Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:30 am


Just a thought, as I know you've tried just about everything, but I wonder if this is just truly cystitis and thickening of the bladder walls that's causing Henry's pain.

My Kyla was diagnosed with cystitis about a year and a half ago at the age of 1 1/2. She turns 3 next month on 11-24. She's been on a long term maintenance dose of Septra for a little over a year. She gets it three days per week, twice per day, gets .7 cc's as her weight is 1134.

We started with .4 cc's but that wasn't enough to stop the pain and gradually upped the dose and .7 seems to work. (Knocks on wood) and she has been virtually pain free for the past several months.

Parsley and too much romaine seem to be the triggers for her so I feed very little romaine and no parsley at all to my pigs now. I feed them primarily green and red leaf every day, with some occasional escarole 1-2 times weekly and give them a little bell pepper, tomatoe or cucumber garnish, and cilantro - they also get watermelon or cantaloupe a few times per week, occasional small piece of orange. They get get tiny amounts of other veggies too of course.

One of these days I'm going to get motivated and start following Becky's diet religiously, but for now this seems to be working.
Last edited by Piggster on Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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somechick

Post   » Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:37 am


Dr. D said it probably is a cystitis case (well except now we got some e coli mixed in there), which is fine, but she's still in pain, so we need some serious pain management here and nothing is helping so far -- which is why I resorted to this homeopathic stuff. Since Henry can tolerate Bactrim, then she'll tolerate Septra. Something else to ask my vet as well.

But my question, which I've been asking all along and I don't know if we have an actual answer or not: I have not changed Henry's diet since the day she came to live with me, so why would she get cystitis after a year if nothing has changed? Is it just like any other disease? I'm cancer free my whole life, nothing has changed, but then I get cancer?

I don't feed romaine or parsley anymore. I think my diet is pretty good according to the calcium:ph chart. It's nearly identical to yours. Although Henry loves dill so I do give her that once in awhile, as it is pretty high up there.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:39 am


Piggster, Septra is bactrim, an antibiotic, no? Any pain meds also? Sounds like you're essentially preventing the development of a uti.

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Piggster

Post   » Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:44 am


As far as I know Lynx, Septra and Bactrim are the same thing - just different brand names. No pain meds (knocks on wood again).

Yes, we are preventing a UTI. Kyla has very thick urine and her bladder walls are very, very thick according to Curt Nakamura at Adobe Animal Hospital.
Last edited by Piggster on Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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somechick

Post   » Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:45 am


Yes, Bactrim and Septra are the brand names for that long named antibiotic. TMS? TMP?

So how can an antibiotic make her have no pain? it's great she's in no pain though. I don't know the general concensus on Peter Gurney, but here's a link mentioning Bactrim. It also mentions barley water, which, yeah, I don't know about that. I'm not sure I'm able to make that sort of thing. It also talks about stones and wet bums. Henry does have a dirty bum, so that makes sense. But so far we have seen no stones, and we've had many x-rays and 3 ultrasounds. http://www.oginet.com/pgurney/cystitis.htm
Last edited by somechick on Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Piggster

Post   » Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:51 am


somechick, we really don't know why it's working so well so far, but Curt feels polycitra, shilintong etc are not warranted at this point. We'll try those of course if what were doing does not work in the future.

I really hope you can find some solutions for Henry - it's absolutely heartbreaking what you have been though with her.

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momof911kids
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:58 am


SC, I just wanted to wish you and Henry good luck with everything.

I lost a piggie back in September who had developed an abscess that was filled with E.coli. The culture sensitivity that we had done showed that E.coli was suspectible to a wide range of antibiotics so our vet had us use Baytril for 2 weeks then we switched to Bactrim. Sadly Portia also developed a secondary infection of staph in the form of an internal abscess and we lost her. Hopefully you'll have an easier time with Henry. *fingers crossed*

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sef1268

Post   » Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:59 am


I wish I understood more about homeopathy. I tried a homeopathic remedy once for my sinuses, but got impatient and switched back to prescription stuff. :\

As far as diet. We've had Zachary since he was a baby, and he was always fed romaine and other things that had a not-so-great Ca:P ratio. Never had a problem until he was about 2 1/2. Why did it take 2 1/2 years for the bleeding to start? I've never understood it. And now, ANY change in diet makes him have sludge or bleed.

Wishing Henry luck on her new stuff. I will try to search GL today and see if I can remember which member here is experienced with homeopathic therapy.

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somechick

Post   » Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:00 am


Shilintong has done nothing for the H-nug either. This is heartbreaking. And it's costing so much money and we're in the same exact place - if not worse due to the elapsed time - that we were back in May. I'm afraid there will be a point where I honestly can no longer afford it. And that scares me.

I will obviously do anything within my power to get her pain free, but I have to stop at some point. I can't put her through surgery over and over, I can't keep giving her drugs that she's intolerant too. Basically I don't want to make things worse in an effort to make thing better. She's already been through a ton.

I wonder if there *is* a stone? But wouldn't we have caught that? Wouldn't it be HUGE by now? Unless it's hiding somewhere an x-ray and ultrasound can't see?

I'm not dealing with a moron vet here either. She's good so it's not like there's an obvious stone she's missing or she's taking lousy x-rays. Everything points to stone or obstruction, yet... nothing. The only thing we know is that she's got a thick bladder.

momof911 - dear lord, that's dreadful. That is not what I want.
Last edited by somechick on Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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sef1268

Post   » Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:01 am


Meant to add in my response that we tried barley water with Zachary too, and it did zilch.

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somechick

Post   » Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:08 am


Well, I'll skip trying to find those ingredients then. So e. coli kind of seems like a death sentence here. Nausea. Ugh, there must be light at the end of this thing.

GP Lover
My home, ruled by pigs!

Post   » Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:20 am


I'm sorry to hear Henry's troubles are not over. Did you try the Shilintong for at least 1 week?

I can tell you that I spent $2500 over the course of 2yrs to get Angel relief. It was the shilintong that did it so at least I did her relief at the end. Angel even had exploratory surgery which i wouldn't recommend. All it did was confirm there was no tumor and she had interstitial cystitis and inflammation in her entire uro-genital tract.

I hope that you can find something that works for poor Henry.

I tried homeopathic stuff too but it was tincture of corn silk and something else I can't remember..it did nothing.

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:29 am


So e. coli kind of seems like a death sentence here
No - it's treatable.

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somechick

Post   » Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:29 am


Yes, she's been on the shilintong for a little over a week with no results. And it's not *really* the money, it's just that at some point, it will run out. In theory, I'd spend any amount, but I know that I can't. And after that $2000 spay with a result of "oh, actually there's nothing wrong" makes me ill to think that I'm spending and spending and not getting any further along. Nug is still hurting.

After searching for E. Coli on GL I've found all sorts of sad news. One post mentioned a 90% mortality rate in boars, another was momof911's thread, and so on and so on.

This says something about cranberries and E. Coli in the bladder, but I can't tell if this sentence is saying that this is a good thing or bad thing. "Inhibits adherence" seems negative to me.

I guess I'll try the homeopathic stuff and see what it does. Worst case it does nothing. I can't find any info online saying it has side effects so, it's worth a shot. At this point, if feeding her Taco Bell made the pain go away I would. I'm desperate.

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:34 am


As I understand it, E.coli has to be treated aggressively. Did you get a sensitivity report?

You might email Pigginess - she can fill you in on her treatment protocol for Emily, which was successful.

User avatar
somechick

Post   » Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:41 am


Well, my vet isn't back until Saturday so I don't know if there was a report. I will double check then. My doc is pretty good with this stuff, so for now, I'll assume there is one, but obviously will ask. I'll shoot a mail to pigginess. The only thing is, Henry can't tolerate the Baytril's and Cipro's nor the Azithromycin so my options are limited to one drug basically.

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:54 am


Some pigs can tolerate a/bs by injection when they can't tolerate it orally.

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Smoskaly
Supporter in '09

Post   » Thu Oct 04, 2007 2:06 pm


Dear somechick,

Your trails and tribulations with Henry are breaking my heart. Poor little girl!

I don't have experience with guinea pigs and cystitis, but, do have some experience with this in dealing with my elderly mother. She developed constant pressure in her bladder and frequent urination. After many months of antibiotics, lots of tests from an expensive urination, nothing had changed. The doctors could not find any cause -- no stones, no signs of infections, etc. Finally, I started my mom on cranberry. She drinks 1/3 cup of unsweetened cranberry juice daily (diluted with water, and sweetened with stevia). She also takes one capsule of capsulated dried cranberry with each meal. Mom mom had suffered with cystitis for over a year, but this cranberry stuff eliminated her symptoms within a week. She's been on the cranberry protocol for several years now. Once, we stopped the cranberry, and her cystitis started coming back.

So, you might want to try cranberry for your piggie. Either buy the unsweetened pure juice (make sure it isn't mixed with other juices), dilute it, and syringe feed. Or, maybe try buying the frozen whole cranberries and feeding a few each day.

Sending a prayer for Henry...

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