Should I worry? Lazy "rag doll" pig

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poppypiggy

Post   » Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:32 am


An update: Poppy has now been on Fortekor for about two months, and I am not sure if this is the right treatment, or if the dose is right.

We started out with about 1/4 of a 2.5 mg tablet a day (eq. 0.625 mg/day), given orally at bedtime. After two weeks I saw no change, and increased to 1 mg/day. I think there has been a slight improvement in her activity level after that, but I am unable to feel any difference in her "floppiness" or muscular strenght. Does anyone know if that is as expected, or should there be an improvment by know?

I talked to my vet yesterday, and she said that it could take up to 6 monthe before any apperent changes could be seen, and suggested the same medication for another 3 months, at least, before we get a new urine sample analyzed. I think this is a long time, but perhaps I am impatient?

Any suggestions would be most appreciated.

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:25 am


Your vet is correct - it can take many months for the full effects of the medication to show.

If there is even some improvement, just stick with it.

Incidentally, all my pigs get 1mg TWICE daily - once isn't enough.

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poppypiggy

Post   » Fri Jun 22, 2007 7:16 am


Thanks, mum! 2 mg/day is for heart conditions, isn't it? The vet thinks that much lower doses are neede for renal failure, but I am not sure if she really knows. Hard to know, because sometimes she is rather absentminded and not so easy to discuss with, like yesterday, and now she will be away for 3 weeks. Do you think I should just increase the dose?

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Fri Jun 22, 2007 10:53 am


I haven't read back through the thread, but wasn't there a suspicion of heart issues in addition to the renal issues?

I can't tell you how much to give. All I can tell you is that this is a twice daily med when given for heart conditions.

As I said before, I start out at 1mg twice daily and adjust slightly up or down from there, depending on how the pig handles it. Mostly they all do well at this dose.

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poppypiggy

Post   » Mon Jun 25, 2007 5:54 am


I suspected heart conditions, but the vet could not find anything indicating that, she said, and was more inclined to believe that Poppy had Cushing's.

When the urine analyzes came back and showed very high albumin values, the vet said that could only mean renal failure, and prescribed Fortekor in low doses, and only once a day, but then she isn't sure about the dosing, and gives me different reasons for the low doses every time I try to discuss it with her. Last time is talke to her on the phone she was worried that Poppy's blood pressure should get too low, causing dizziness, if the dose is too high.

Perhaps I should give the higher dose a try for 10 - 15 days; maybe during my vacation, when I will be able to check on her most of the day.

Sigh - I was so impressed with this vet at first, now I am not so sure about her.

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poppypiggy

Post   » Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:47 pm


An update on Poppy:

She has now been on low doses of Fortekor since April. After about two months it seemed like there was some improvement, but now she is about as sedate as before. She doesn't drink quite as much as in the spring, but still more than the others, I think. And pees accordingly. Her sides are still bulging, and the muscular strength is not regained; if anything it has declined. On the other side she is not behaving like she is sick or in pain. Eats well, no weight loss. Her poops look normal, but larger than the other's, for some reason.

I just got the result of a new urine test back, and it the UPC (Urine Protein Creatinine) - level is almost doubled from April, in stead of lowered - from about 7 in April to about 14 now.

My vet is not sure what this means, and suggested a lot of different test; one of them being a biopsy of a kidney to see if the tissue is damaged or not. I don't think that is a great idea at the moment, and my vet agreed, so the next thing we will do is a new broad specter urine test. I hope that will give us some clue, but am afraid the results will only make us more confused.

My vet claims that the proteineuri (protein leakage) could mean several other things than kidney failure, and mentioned UTI, pyometra and stones. Does anybody have any experience with this?

The facts so far: A nearly two years old sow with bulging sides, bony upper body, little muscular strength in the back and in her rear legs, very laid back, rests more than the others but are otherwise alert and responsive, eats well, drinks more than the others and pees accordingly, and her UPC-values have increased over the summer.

Does this make sense to anybody? I am thankful for any input.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:10 pm


I'm sorry I don't know enough to comment. I hope you can come up with a treatment that helps.

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Tue Oct 09, 2007 6:00 pm


She has now been on low doses of Fortekor since April.
What dosage is she on?

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Tue Oct 09, 2007 8:17 pm


"My vet claims that the proteineuri (protein leakage) could mean several other things than kidney failure ..."

I believe there are other GI disorders that cause protein leakage, malabsorption, poor nutrient uptake and the like. There is a condition called PLE (protein-losing enteropathy) that my vet investigated for one of ours. Josephine will likely know about this.

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poppypiggy

Post   » Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:46 am


Lynx- thank you. This is so frustrating - I want her to be healty and happy!

Mum - she was first on 0,65 mg once a day, then doubled to 0,65 mg twice a day. I had an intention of increasing to 1,25 mg twice a day (without asking my vet) to see if that would make any difference, but since Poppy continues to leak protein I don't think she is a heart pig. Or am I mistaken? Will a pig in heart failure have protein in the urine? My vet doesn't seem to think so, but she might well be mistaken.

Talishan - thank you for the tip. I will ask Josephine!

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:15 am


I believe it is not uncommon for heart pigs to also have kidney issues.

I'd up the heart meds personally - particularly if she's a diagnosed heart pig.

All my heart pigs are on 1mg twice daily.

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poppypiggy

Post   » Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:53 am


Thanks, Mum. Poppy is not a diagnosed heart pig; the Fortekor was supposed to help her kidneys, but apparently doesn't. Or so the vet thinks.

Poppy is now taken off the med, and I feel we are almost back to where we started, except that Poppy's upper is even bonier, her sides are bulging more than ever and her urine contains more creatinine relative to protein thatn it did in the spring.

Her weight is the same as before - it is the distribution of fat and musculature on her body that has changed.

This is really frustating! I worry more and more that we are running out of time, and that my vet is unable to find out what the problem really is.

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