Valentine, convulsing during subcue

Pigginess
You are my sunshine

Post   » Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:37 pm


We took our senior pig, Valentine, to the vet this past week because of blood in her urine. X-ray showed two bladder stones. One larger stone high up in the bladder and a small one at the tip of the urethra. There was also fluid in the lung area and the doctor said that was the beginning of congestive heart failure.

She was previously diagnosed with an enlarged heart and large arthritis spurs and has been on 0.15 metacam once a day and 0.5 Lotensin twice a day. She had been doing great.

She was sent home with septra (for the blood in urine) and lasix (for the fluids) and told to give subcues to try and flush the stone out.

The first time we gave her the subcue she began convulsing so we stopped and she continued to convulse for at least 5 minutes. We rushed her to the vet and by the time they saw her she was stable. They did another x-ray and the stone is still there however the fluid in her lung area was much less.

We were told to try the subcue again. We tried it the following day and she began convulsing again so we immediately stopped.

Has anyone heard of a pig convulsing during a subcue? If so what are the causes?

Even though she eats her greens, hay, and a small amount of pellets, she was slowly losing weight so for about 6 months we have been supplementing her with Critical Care twice a day.

Also, do you think she is a candidate for surgery? It would be to pluck out the stone not major stone removal.

What could happen if one elects not to do surgery because of the risks?

I have an appointment at the vet this afternoon.

She is such a happy girl, full of personality, purring, and generally enjoying life. I don't know if we should just let things be as they are or take a chance on surgery. I don't know the real ramifications of leaving the stone where it is.

Of course, if she would just pass the stone that would be wonderful.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:04 pm


Was the injection fluid body temperature? Say about 98 degrees F? If it were particularly cold or too hot, there might be convulsions.

If she is in good health, surgery might be an option. If there are heart problems, this could complicate things. Ask your vet what you think.

Yes, it would be great if she could pass the stone. The risks of no surgery are blocking the urethra, thickening of the bladder, irritation to the bladder wall, increased possibility of a UTI.

Pigginess
You are my sunshine

Post   » Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:10 pm


Yes, the injection fluid was "baby bottle warm" per Mum's coaching.

User avatar
sus4rabbitsnpigs

Post   » Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:19 pm


Good luck. I'd be hesitant to put her under if she has heart issues and her age too, but hard to make that call.

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Sef
I dissent.

Post   » Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:27 pm


What gauge needle did you use?

Pigginess
You are my sunshine

Post   » Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:30 pm


The first time it was a 22 and the second time it was 25.

Yes, this is a very difficult call because of her age and heart issues.
Thanks.

Pigginess
You are my sunshine

Post   » Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:13 pm


Back from the vet. The decision was made for me. No surgery because of her heart issues.

No more subcues but to keep her as hydrated as we can with the hope that she passes this on her own.

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:19 pm


Pigginess - did the vet have any ideas as to why she was seizing with the subcues?

I know you had the right size needles and had the fluid warmed correctly, so it would be really interesting to know why this happened.

Poor little Valentine. I do hope she's able to pass that stone by herself.

If you haven't had any answers from the vet, you might considering emailing Josephine and seeing if she has any ideas about the seizing.

HollyT
Get on your bike.

Post   » Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:20 pm


Pigginess, there is a good chance you're running it to fast. That would be my guess. Fingers crossed for Valentine.

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:24 pm


HollyT, she was using a 25 gauge butterfly needle, and in my experience you can't get it in too fast with such a tiny gauge.

Or perhaps you can?

I believe both times this happened at about 15ccs. Also, the office sent her home with sodium chloride 9% (or something like that). They didn't want to give Lactated Ringers because of her CHF and the extra potassium in the LR.

HollyT
Get on your bike.

Post   » Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:36 pm


Don't know about the gauge. I suppose if you pushed too fast it wouldn't matter but don't know if that was the case either. I find 15cc's to be sufficient so that is usually my max amount.

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Sef
I dissent.

Post   » Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:43 pm


Sebastian seized once when I was giving subcues (it looked like hiccups, and it kept up right until we pulled into the vet's office--then he was fine). We weren't sure what happened, but the best guess was that I had either given it too fast (it was a 22-gauge needle) OR that I had somehow hit a nerve. I had given it between the shoulder blades, and never had the courage to try it there again.

Here's hoping she passes the stone and feels better soon.

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