Valentine, convulsing during subcue

Pigginess
You are my sunshine

Post   » Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:20 am


Mum, the vet and I discussed in great detail exactly how I gave the subcue. He had no explanation for the convulsing.

HollyT, I'm certain it wasn't too fast. It seemed very slow to me and much slower than the subcues that I've seen others give.

sef1268, we were giving them between the shoulder blades too, perhaps there's a nerve there or something.

I'm now giving her oral fluids. 50/50 unflavored pedialyte and H2O with a 10 cc syringe. She has taken 25 cc's throughout the day. I'm using the pedialyte because she loves the flavor and will drink more.

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Topaz

Post   » Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:44 am


I wonder if stress can trigger some pigs to seize?

I say this because I saw something similar happen with my previous pig at the vets once.

She was ill and we were at the vets. The vet was holding her and overclipped a nail(accidentally) and Meenie started doing this weird motion with her head and twitching her body repeatedly. It lasted for about 30 seconds. I'm pretty sure it was a seizure. The vet was a bit concerned and asked if I'd ever seen her do that before. I hadn't.

GP Lover
My home, ruled by pigs!

Post   » Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:00 am


I've seen that reaction twice. Once was when Sophie got an antibiotic shot. At first the vet wasn't alarmed and said it would stop but it didn't. He then seemed to panic and we put her into an incubator with oxygen. She was kept overnight and was fine the next day.

The other time was when I brought Angel to the vet and they were instructing me how to give her a subcue. When they put the needle in she started jerking her body back and forth and I made them stop. The vet told me to just syringe her extra water.

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Sef
I dissent.

Post   » Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:01 am


Pigginess -- you might try in the hip next time.

I wondered, too, if stress might be a factor. The one time that Sebastian reacted that way to the subcue, my husband was holding him and fussing at me about "hurting him." I was stressed, my husband was stressed, and I'm sure Bassy was doubly stressed.

After that, I did the subcues by myself.

Pigginess
You are my sunshine

Post   » Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:19 am


Thanks for your responses everyone. It helps to know that we are not completely alone with this reaction. Sure would be nice to know why this happens.

I'm sure stress is a factor. However, my husband used to do marine biology research. He's taken dozens of blood samples from sharks so he was pretty comfortable with doing a subcue.

I think we will continue syringing extra water and not try another subcue.

Thanks for the good wishes for Valentine. She's a very special girl and we love her so much.

Josephine
Little Jo Wheek

Post   » Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:39 am


I am sure it is pain/stress causing that reaction. Sometimes it is a challenge to get them quiet. I like to wrap them in a snuggly cosy or towel so they can't move much an feel more secure.

Mum, it's 0.9%. That's isotonic. It's a good number to remember, if you can.

If you can get enough Pedialyte and oral fluids in, that is certainly the next best thing. Hydration is key.

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:32 am


Thanks Josephine - that's good to know.

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Zoe

Post   » Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:40 am


I've had 2 pigs pass stones without subcues, but I did pretty constant water syringings.

Good luck Valentine!

Pigginess
You are my sunshine

Post   » Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:08 pm


Thanks Josephine and Zoe. I'll keep you posted of any developments.

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somechick

Post   » Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:15 pm


Oh hello Pigginess, Henry and I are just saying "hi" and wishing you and Valentine well. No medical advice, but hoping it passes.

Charybdis

Post   » Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:29 am


A couple things to add, although all advice given so far has been excellent. I have 2 pigs that I subcue regularly, and if I get the needle in the wrong spot, they will start twitching. Also, a vet told me that the fluids may make them feel like shivering afterwards. Both Itchy and Madison will do this on occasion, and I do warm the fluid and use a 25 butterfly needle because it allows more flexibility and less need for restraint of the pig. I'm with Josephine--wrapping in a warm towel might help.

With all my pigs, I set red bell pepper in front of them before starting the subcue. Most of them start munching the pepper after the second subcue. Mad and Itchy seem to wait for the stick, and once it's in, they start eating. I guess it's a distraction.

If Dr. R says no surgery, then it's probably not a good idea. In my experience, he is a very optimistic vet and willing to do surgery even if it is a little risky.

With stones occurring, there is always a possibility that there is kidney malfunction. If so, more stones will likely occur. Since Valentine came into the rescue very malnourished, with scurvy and bad mites, it wouldn't surprise me if there was damage to the kidneys. One of the pigs I subcue, Itchy, came in this condition with his brother and ultrasound showed that they both had damaged kidneys.

We think that the others in Valentine's group may be 6 or 7 years old. One died this year of possible heart failure. So perhaps this might be an issue of making her comfortable. You did a very kind thing by adopting a senior pig and gave her a chance of having a wonderful home, so whatever happens remember that she has had a great second life.

Pigginess
You are my sunshine

Post   » Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:29 am


Thanks Chary.

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