*URGENT* Passing blood...squeaking

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sef1268

Post   » Tue Dec 25, 2007 8:36 am


I wonder about carbonates, too. From everything I've read, they're actually more common that oxalates, and make more sense to me -- given that oxalates supposedly have trouble forming in an alkaline environment.

I still have Sebastian's stone here. Never had it analyzed; I wonder if I should.

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Smoskaly
Supporter in '09

Post   » Tue Dec 25, 2007 2:30 pm


Sef, who's the piggy in your avatar? Is that Zachary?

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sef1268

Post   » Tue Dec 25, 2007 4:14 pm


Yes, that's Zachary. :)

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gpgrandma
Supporter in '07

Post   » Wed Dec 26, 2007 4:36 pm


How's Zachary doing today? Hope he is hanging in there.

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Becky

Post   » Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:56 pm


You only want more acidic urine if there are struvite crystals. Everything else, you want alkaline urine.

Also, I would bet the farm that they are not oxalate or magnesium crystals, but calcium carbonate. Almost all of them are, but many vets say oxalate based on cats and dogs.

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sef1268

Post   » Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:09 am


Becky -- after re-reading the thread w/ Dr. Hawkins' comments on stone composition, I see now that Polycitra would probably not be of much value since this is most likely NOT an oxalate stone. It's one reason why I'm leaning towards having the one accessible stone removed (so that it can be analyzed).

My vet isn't in today, so I left a message for my vet's colleague this morning to see if they have used hydrochlorothiazide. Do you happen to know, Becky, what the dosing recommendations are on it? It's not in the Formulary, and I couldn't find a reference to it online other than for human use. I sent Dr. Hawkins an email last night, asking her about dosing and a few other questions. I hope it wasn't too pushy of me to contact her directly, but I'm getting a little desperate.

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sef1268

Post   » Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:44 pm


I just ran over to the vet's office on my lunch hour and picked up Zachary's xrays. We have a lightbox here at work, but I had trouble getting a decent image with the digital camera that I have (the flash kept going off).

Here are the images; feedback appreciated (I have marked the first one according to what our vet is telling us):

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sef1268

Post   » Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:08 pm


Here's a slightly clearer version of the first image. I think I may have also gotten it flipped backwards:

Image

Tracis
Let Sleeping Pigs Lie

Post   » Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:12 pm


I think the x-rays are very detailed and clear.

Hugs for Zachary. Hugs for you too, Sef.

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Becky

Post   » Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:28 pm


Very few stones are oxalate. As I said before, I'd guess it actually is calcium carbonate, not oxalate. Either way, the polycitra would be fine and you certainly could give it a try. It's not expensive and given properly, won't hurt.

Holy smokes, that's a lot of stones and a lot of sludge, too. He's got to be extremely uncomfortable.

HCT is a blood pressure med. Why were you considering this?

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sef1268

Post   » Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:44 pm


I know. And I really don't know how best to deal with the discomfort. He's on .1 cc's of Metacam once a day, and I have given him a couple of doses of Torb but can't tell if it makes any difference.


Michelle Hawkins had mentioned that she found HCT to be more effective at preventing stones than Polycitra. Have you heard of this?

Dumb question, but are Polycitra and potassium citrate the exact same thing?

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Becky

Post   » Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:00 pm


Polycitra is potassium citrate, yes.

I imagine the theory behind HCT is that it helps flush out excess fluids (it's a diuretic). I'm not a doctor or vet, but I just wonder how it would prevent stones.

HCT also can do strange things to potasium levels. I know. I was on it and had to switch because my leg muscle started cramping.

Use an electric toothbrush or small massager on his belly. That will help with the sludge pain. I think Josephine already gave you some good info about pain relief. I'm sure he needs it.

Not going back to look--did they do any sort of dye tracer to see exactly what his urine flow is through the ureters?

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sef1268

Post   » Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:25 pm


No, I didn't know there was such a thing as a dye tracer. (Mind you, I live out in the boonies here in Indiana...I'm lucky to have a vet as relatively savvy as she is, because good resources in these parts are few and far between.)

Sounds like something I should mention when I discuss the Metacam and Torb doses again with her on Monday. What is involved in that?


I'm off to see who carries potassium citrate around here.

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Becky

Post   » Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:37 pm


They were going to inject him with dye, then somehow check to see what the flow was through the ureter that had a stone. To be honest with you, I'd have to dig out my notes for more detail and I haven't a clue where they are. Can't remember if we were going to check via ultrasound or some other means. We never got that far, so I really can't remember.

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sef1268

Post   » Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:13 pm


Well...not surprisingly, nobody around here has potassium citrate. My vet didn't have it when I asked the other day, CVS doesn't have it, KMart doesn't have it, GNC doesn't have it. I called the small locally owned health food shop in town, and they said they had it. So I drove over to pick it up.

Turns out that it's "BioCitrate Potassium." Brand is Solaray, and here is what the label says:
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"Formulated for enhanced potassium absorption. 99mg of Potassium (as Potassium Citrate).

Other ingredients: Rice flour, vegetable cellulose capsule, parsley leaf, celery seed, dandelion root, magnesium stearate, watercress leaf and oat straw stem."

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Guy said that parsley is a natural diuretic and is used in natural medicine to help dissolve crystals and prevent stones. He said celery seed is also used to treat kidney stones, and dandelion root...does something. He didn't comment on the watercress or oat straw, but a Google search shows that they're both used in natural medicine for kidney and bladder problems.

Can I use this? Or is it the wrong stuff (as far as the potassium citrate goes)? It was $5.80 for a bottle of 60 vegetarian capsules.

Ledasmom

Post   » Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:15 pm


I believe dandelion is or was considered to be a diuretic, therefore the French name "pissenlit" (bed-wetter).

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Piggster

Post   » Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:31 pm


parsley is a natural diuretic and is used in natural medicine to help dissolve crystals and prevent stones

Unfortunately parsley is one of foods that "triggers" Kyla's cystitis, as does dandelions, but maybe dandelion root is different.

How ironic is that!

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:16 pm


If you'd like, I can add a couple of your xrays permanently to the thread.

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sef1268

Post   » Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:20 pm


Yes, thanks Lynx. You can pick the ones you think are clearest.

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averyl

Post   » Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:51 pm


sef- I had the same problem but finally had gotten my polycitra at Walgreen's. Maybe you have one near you. : )

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