Ketoprofen for pain by mouth ok?

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eclipse_trb

Post   » Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:30 am


Melody our sow has another pair of stones 5 weeks after her 1st operation doc will do the operation in a few days but gave us ketoprofen when i asked him about the pain since she squeecks while urinating he prescribed ketoprofen suspension by mouth .1cc daily. Thoughts opinions?

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Sat Feb 23, 2008 7:10 pm


I'm not too familiar with it but hope it helps. Meloxicam is often used for pain by members here.

gl/analgesics.html

eclipse_trb

Post   » Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:47 pm


Well I got the doctor to move up the surgery. So she went in yesterday and surgery seemed to have gone good. .1cc of baytril twice day+ .1cc of the ketoprofen once a day. I spoke to the doctor and he said the keto is just a form of ibuprofen and he as had better luck with it then the meloxicam. he also sent home some novacam to clean the suture site was wondering what best way to use it would be, flush with syringe or cotton balls and padd it on?
Last edited by eclipse_trb on Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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rshevin

Post   » Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:51 pm


I wouldn't say ketoprofen is a "form of" ibprofen, but it is chemically similar.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:09 pm


I think most people work at having as clean as an environment as possible. Bedding on clean white towels changed a few times daily. See also gl/antiseptic_solutions.html

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Wed Mar 26, 2008 2:23 pm


From your new thread:

Well our sow melody age 5 has turned into a calcium stone making machine. Our story goes like this.

Week one diagnosed with stones and surgery is performed.
Week 3 stiches come out xrays taken 2 new small stones seen
Week 5 Second surgery is performed xrays done at end of surgery clean bladder, no stones can be seen in kidneys
Week 6 end of week 10 days after surgery she passes a small stone herself
Week 7/8 stiches come out xrays taken 2 new stones present in bladder
Week 10 Xrays taken 2 stones look more solid and probably one new stone present.

Her diet is chicory, green leaf lettuce, cilantro and curly endive one small baby carrot per day(I might start giving her green peppers). Oxbow pellets(timothy kind), Oxbow or kaytee orchard grass and KM's third timothy.She gets her vegies (about 3/4 cup) twice a day and always has hay and pellets in her cage. She eats about whats recomended of the pellets 1/8 to one 1/4 cup and I wish she would eat more hay and offer her every kind under the sun but she eats about a handfull sometimes more is she likes the snap it has.

She is also drinking only distilled water about 3/4 of a bottle per day sometimes a little more sometimes less (we feared maybe our filtered water at home may have been a culprit but the small stone and the solidification of the 2 stones in the last set of xrays have been since the water switch.)

We were giving her oxbow Vitamin C as a suplement during some of this time and she has been on CVS brand probiotic Lactobacikius acidophilus (also contains rice powder, silica, Matltodextrin and vegetable magnesium stearate.) because of the antibiotic.

She is curently on bactrim(in the pink solution) .30 twice a day and Metacam .15 a day, but she has also taken baytril post both surgeries and ketoprofen after the 1st surgery (she seemed to act a little crazy on the keto and we switched her to the meta). She also gets a dose of the baby antigas stuff .15 every once in a while since well she gets gas sometimes.

Where we are today:
I have in my head run out of things to try. I am going to ask the doctor to reexamine all the xrays to look for any abnormalities around her heart, I have read that sometimes a heart condition can cause less blood to the kidneys and they begin to not process the calcium as well and just dumping it into the urine.

I am considering taking her off the Vit C and or the Probiotic completely, its one of the only major changes in her diet since she was 1st diagnosed and I know diet changes can cause problems, but ingredient wise i don't know how these things could be the culprit.

She was on kaytee pellets in december and I switched her too oxbow both are the timothy kind and have similar ingredients should i switch her back. By the way I bought a new bag of the oxbow in between surgeries just in case.

The late Peter Gurney (a uk vet that wrote a few books about GP) believed that Frusmide (I think same as Lasix i believe) would help by flushing thy kidneys since the piggy would drink more water but I have read that it could also harm the kidneys.

I have also read about a herb chanca piedra (Latin name: Phyllanthus Niruri) being used but other then people trying to sell it I have never heard of anybody using it on piggies or rabbits as some people claim it will help to break up stones and prevent new stones.

Somebody in another post mentioned drug Polycitra (helps in stopping the formation of stones), my vet has used it in dogs but is worried about using it in a GP. I have not found any studies or anything concrete that I can take to him that clearly proves this would help.

The above are the options and opinions I have gathered so far.
She seems healthy other then the stones, she as never been the kind to be handled and we have respected that. She likes her floor time and she knows she gets to eat after a good run around twice a day. I have run out of ideas and so has the doctor for the most part. He doesn't want to medicate her with other drugs unless he has a clear reason to do so and prefers if there is some evidence that it would work in a GP.

Our choices are an endless cycle of surgeries where she one day dies on the table or from complications (or we run out of money). Or we leave it alone and see what happens and if one day she is in too much pain or gets a stone lodged we either do an emegency surgery or at that point or we put her too sleep.

My worst fear as it is for many people is that emergency situation is going to happen in the middle of the night or on a sunday when my vet is closed and I have to watch her die in pain that I would not wish on my worst enemies.

Im sorry for the long post and the crappy spelling but I can't figure anything else out and need help. Am I missing something?

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Wed Mar 26, 2008 2:47 pm


eclipse, you asked me if I could change the title of the thread and move the newest post to the top. Sorry, I can't do that. If you read other medical threads you'll see that the new information is always added on to the bottom of the thread. This way we can go back to the beginning and follow the history.

Tracis
Let Sleeping Pigs Lie

Post   » Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:05 pm


I'm sorry that Melody is having problems with stones. They can be so heartbreaking.

Not sure if you have read this page from the Care Guide; it may be helpful for you and your vet:
http://www.guinealynx.info/polycitra.html

Some people use Shilintong to help their guinea pigs pass a stone. Do you know if Melody has been able to pass a stone?

If you are interested, here are some links:
Josephine's Shilintong thread
What does Shilintong look like?

TwoWhitePiggies and TWP2 have dealt with multiple stones with their boys:
Sully's thread
Gilbert's thread
Widget's thread

User avatar
Topaz

Post   » Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:29 pm


"She is also drinking only distilled water about 3/4 of a bottle per day sometimes a little more sometimes less (we feared maybe our filtered water at home may have been a culprit but the small stone and the solidification of the 2 stones in the last set of xrays have been since the water switch.)"

I've read and heard on here that distilled water isn't good to give. Not sure if that applies in a stone producing pig though.

I wish I had medical advice to offer. I'm sorry she's having such a hard time.

eclipse_trb

Post   » Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:34 pm


Distilled water is just water as pure at it can get they boil all the impurities and minerals out of it. Don't know why it would be bad.

eclipse_trb

Post   » Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:53 pm


I did a search here and a general search topaz I see what you are saying. It seems that distilled being so neutral can draw minerals from the body. So good and bad good cause calcium is a mineral bad because it can draw other minerals over time and cause damage. Why people that drink too much soda can develop problems since they used distilled water for all soda production. Now too find a happy median...

I also saw this posting by pinta has anybody tried the Actigall since then:

http://www.guinealynx.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=38550&post ... all&start=40

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:20 pm


As far I know no-one has tried it yet, although I've pointed it out to several who might find it useful.

In a situation such as this I think it would be worth trying.

I've used both polycitra and shilintong in a pig with multiple (about 30) small stones. I also subcued her twice daily for a couple of weeks. She had other issues, and died several months later, but on necropsy all the stones were gone.

If the stone is small enough to be passed subcues can help greatly.

eclipse_trb

Post   » Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:32 pm


If the doctor doesn't see anything in the Xrays to indicate heart problems then we will probably go with one more surgery.

After the surgery I will probably put her on the polycitra. What dosages are recomended for GP's?

If stones reform then we may try the actigall.

The stones right now are what you would call medium in size but they are pretty solid looking in the xray not cloudy.

Unless I research or get any better ideas over the next few days this is what we may go with. If all that doesn't work then I guess it may be time to surrender.

eclipse_trb

Post   » Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:23 pm


Actigall/Ursodiol may not be looking too good. Found a few sites that say ok for cats and dogs bad for piggies,rabbits etc... their livers may be damaged by it.

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=0&cat=1459&articleid=3206
http://www.animalshelter.org/petmeds/Health/Ursodiol/64.html

Tracis
Let Sleeping Pigs Lie

Post   » Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:07 am


"After the surgery I will probably put her on the polycitra. What dosages are recomended for GP's?"

There isn't a recommended dosage listed on the Stones page, but here are some that other Guinea Lynx members have used:

Link to Mum's Polycitra dose for Candy

Link to Becky's Polycitra dose for Chippy

Link to Becky's advice for Polycitra dose for Chester

eclipse_trb

Post   » Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:21 am


Thank you tracis

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