weight loss in older piggy

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:51 am


I hope you see some results soon.

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mmeadow
Supporter 2004-2022

Post   » Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:59 am


Good luck with Inca! Are you dosing once or twice a day? I believe we were doing twice, based on some data my partner found showing that a divided dose was more effective.

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Tracy

Post   » Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:19 am


Inca's dose seems small compared to the few doses I've seen posted here on GL. But maybe it's a stronger concentration; I don't fully understand dosing of meds. Vet prescribed .07 twice daily. I told her my preference is to be cautious and then increase if necessary (because of the effect on kidneys), and she said I can do once daily if I want. But I'm gonna give as per instructions unless I observe something concerning with Inca.

My vet had discussed the whole case with hospital's "guru" on hyperthyroid (has treated thousands of hyperthyroid cats, on which piggy protocol is based) as well as a cardiologist and another doc (maybe head of critical care?). So I feel I've got a panel of experts helping us out and need to just trust them now.

mmeadow, Scooby's name has come up every so often. Sounds like she was improving well until her thyroid "storm" -- condolences again about her, but hopefully they will learn with each case, right? Until they are more confident about best treatment. Inca will further the cause, too.

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mmeadow
Supporter 2004-2022

Post   » Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:39 am


I can't read John's cryptic notes on Scooby's meds. I'll get him to decipher for me and then post tonight.

As I posted earlier, she definitely improved--she became more active, had a much better attitude, and ate much more on her own. We continued to hand-feed her Critical Care, but not vast quantities. (Before the methimazole kicked in, she was getting a whopping 60 ccs/day, and even that wasn't enough to stabilize her weight. AND it took more than 3 hours a day.)

Again to repeat--if we could have a do-over, we might continue to increase her dose beyond that which got these results. John wonders whether the thyroid storm could have been prevented by additional suppression of her thyroid function.

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Tracy

Post   » Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:22 am


mmeadow, I think Scooby may have been worse than Inca. Inca already is active, has good attitude, and eats well -- even before the meds. And to supplement Inca is quite easy; don't think I've given up to 60cc of Critical Care per day, but that wouldn't be hard to accomplish. Sounds like maybe Scooby's weight loss made her weak, whereas Inca -- thank goodness -- is acting okay despite her size/weight. I'm really hoping for a good outcome, yet remain cautious and ready for anything.

Please do send along Scooby's tapazole dose, though; I'm trying to learn doses other members have given. In one post, you wrote .30 for Scooby, divided into two doses/day. And in the skinny/T4 thread, a few folks posted about 1.25 daily for tapazole. That's why I think Inca's concentration must be higher because her total daily dose will be only .14.

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PooksiedAnimals
Supporting my GL Habit

Post   » Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:25 pm


Good luck with Inca - I hope this stuff does the trick.

pinta

Post   » Wed Jun 18, 2008 4:43 pm


she definitely improved--she became more active

Inca already is active


Huh??? Hyperthyroid pigs are already active, frenetically active. You want to calm them down, not get them more active. All that activity requires extra fuel(excessive eating and drinking) but the calories are burnt off before they can add to weight. The major organs all work harder and faster. The poops are bigger as the food rushes thru the system faster. Everything is speeded up.

Hypothyroid animals are not active, sluggish. As I understand it Dogs can get hypothyroidism and cats hyperthyroidism. As no research has been done on pigs it's anyone's guess if they can be hyper and hypothyroid.

Weight loss and inactivity indicates something other than hyperthyroidism. In our experience these symptoms have usually been heart related.

I can't remember what diagnostics were done to conclude hyperthyroidism is the problem. Ultrasound?

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Tracy

Post   » Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:04 pm


Sorry if that got confusing. mmeadow said her piggy got more active with tapazole; that's why I guessed maybe her hyperhtyroid piggy was weak from weight loss and frenetic activity.

My piggy, Inca, subject of this thread, is not sluggish yet also not frenetic. Her energy is a bit inconsistent, but not drastic. She has presumed hyperthyroid based on a lump in her neck, weight loss that couldn't be explained by other diagnostics, racing heart, and slightly enlarged left ventricle (seen with echo); T4 was okay, which is why I went down a "heart" path with the vet. But once we felt the lump, now we're pretty sure thyroid is causing all problems.

We'll check Inca's T4 and other blood levels again after she gains some weight (or stops losing) and her heart slows at least some. Those will be indications the tapazole is working. That's our plan.

pinta

Post   » Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:22 pm


No utrasound was done? Our suspected hyperthyroid pigs didn't tire no matter how much weight they lost. Even my vet commented they will run themselves into a heart attack at the rate they were going - hence the heart meds while we tried to slow them down with the tapazole.

They also did not have any lumps anywhere.

This sounds like an "assumed diagnostic". Because so much is at stake and heart disease is fairly easy to deal with, I think you need to confirm the hyperthyroid diagnostic. Has the lump been biopsied? Ultrasounded?

T4 was okay I believe that is the only indicator of hyperthyroidism.

My brain can't compute the hyperthyroid diagnostic with a pig that is not frenetically active. Honestly, hyperthyroid pigs act like they're on speed. They will jump out of their basket at the vet and run around the examining room. Very freaky to see since they regard their basket as a safe zone and usually won't leave it in un familiar surroundings. My vet was amazed at the change in pigs she knew well.

Maybe you vet should be trying heart meds first and see how they work and THEN try tapazole.

I also think Josephine should look at this thread.

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Tracy

Post   » Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:18 pm


Yes, it is indeed a presumed diagnosis. Inca is not at a frenetic point, and certainly I'm glad for that. Sounds like yours was very revved up, so that's how you knew.

We're going on weight loss (despite much supplemental feeding)plus the lump, plus rapid heart that is likely secondary to the hyperthyroid. We were thinking to retest her T4, but I don't want to anesthetize Inca for bloodwork while she's so underweight and has racing heart (and we couldn't collect from her leg). We can try heart meds or thyroid med, but not both (can be dangerous for blood pressure and kidneys, plus we wouldn't know which is working), and the way my vet explained it, makes sense to try tapazole for her thyroid first, which hopefully will slow her heart (and everything else) closer to norm.

I'd love if Josephine chimed in...or anyone else.

Tracis
Let Sleeping Pigs Lie

Post   » Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:50 pm


You may want to send Josephine an email and ask her to look at this thread.

pinta

Post   » Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:05 pm


We're going on weight loss (despite much supplemental feeding)plus the lump, plus rapid heart that is likely secondary to the hyperthyroid.

Extract the lump symptom and it describes heart issues. Bart is just over 2 years and has been on heart meds for over a year. We knew his meds needed adjusting when he lost 12 ounces rapidly from his norml 3 pound weight. Lasix did the trick. He regained all his weight back. He started losing again and we upped his Fortekor. Weight is coming back on.

In my experience, without the frenetic activity, it just doesn't sound like hyperthyroidism. We had T-4 counts that certainly indicated something was off. We used healthy pigs for T-4 controls. Without the T-4 counts, what else do you have to go on to diagnose hyperthyroidism?

Has the lump been biopsied? What makes your vet think it has something to do with the thyroid?

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