45g baby--how much CC/pedialyte to feed?

Evangeline

Post   » Tue Jul 22, 2003 4:08 pm


Critical care is already balanced for herbivores and it already has an appetite stimulants, vitamins and minerals. Nutrical is loaded with fat and it simply not the best option.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Tue Jul 22, 2003 4:12 pm


I don't know if your Nutrical is the same as what is available locally, but this is bad product for guinea pigs. It is loaded with fat soluble vitamins and would be much to easy to cause problems from an overdose of these vitamins than it would be using a product like Critical Care -- which as E describes, already is well balanced.

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Cindi

Post   » Tue Jul 22, 2003 4:21 pm


Hmmm, I know that many use CC for rabbits too. But I wonder why the Nutrical helps rabbits but would hurt Piggies, since they are both herbivores? I just didn't think they'd be much different. Sorry, was just trying to help.
Cindi

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KarasKavies
For the love of my girls!

Post   » Tue Jul 22, 2003 4:27 pm


Wish her luck from me. Bea is proof that it can be done. However, she was genetically OK. I have nursed 3 other pups who didn't make it.

Bea lost weight initially too, but when she started to gain it was pretty steady especially after 100 grams.

None of the pigs I hand fed would take the CC. Stinkers! They did LOVE the baby oatmeal and the squash with a splash of the "milk" mixture or some carrot juice.

Also, I gave Bea as much as she would take. After her feedings, her little tummy felt like a super ball. She would also ATTACK the syring and become very unhappy when I need to refill. She had spunk. Still does!

Good luck. I am pulling for all of you.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Tue Jul 22, 2003 4:43 pm


Cindi, I'll take a pic of the product I have. You can tell me if it is what you are thinking of. But still, fat really is not good.

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Paravati
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Tue Jul 22, 2003 5:19 pm


To Chary's original question: When we saved Mister E (who was born with his eyes closed, horribly underweight, and didn't seem to know HOW to nurse).. We just tried to feed him as much as possible. He fought the handfeeding at first, but by the second or third day I think I remember him taking 5 cc's at a sitting. We fed him that pellet mash recipe you know about, but we went a little heavier on the single grain Baby Rice meal. And I used a drop of Karo Syrup on my finger and let him lick it off each time. After 8-9 days or so, he opened his eyes, started expressing interest in the food his siblings were eating, and finally started nursing on his own when his mama saw that he wasn't going to die and let him.

Charybdis

Post   » Tue Jul 22, 2003 5:24 pm


Thanks, Para. That's a little more encouraging.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Wed Jul 23, 2003 8:54 am


DO NOT USE THIS PRODUCT!
Here are some pics of the Nutrical -- Nutri-cal -- Nutri Cal (put these in for search purposes) that I have.

As I said before, it is loaded with fat soluble vitamins and it would be much too easy to cause problems from an overdose of these vitamins than it would be using a product like Critical Care. It is also loaded with fat (34.5%). Read over the hand feeding information, if you need it, here:
www.guinealynx.info/emergencymedicalgui ... andfeeding

Image

Pic of Front of box -- Also says for veterinary use only.
Pic of Complete ingredients list
Pic of Complete list of vitamins -- gives amount of vitamins/minerals and fat per 6 grams.

The ingredients from this list:
Guaranteed analysis per teaspoon (6 grams)
  • Crude Protein -- 0.7%
  • Crude Fat -- 34.5%
  • Crude fiber -- 3.8%
  • Moisture -- 14%
  • Calcium -- 0.16-0.20 mg
  • Phosphorus -- 0.03 mg
  • Iron 0.53mg
  • Iodine -- 0.53%
  • Magnesium -- 0.42 mg
  • Manganese -- 1 mg
  • Potassium -- 0.16mg
  • Vitamin A -- 1045 IU
  • Vitamin D3 -- 60 IU
  • Vitamin E -- 6 IU
  • Vitamin B1 (Thiamine) -- 1.8 mg
  • Vitamin B2 (Riboflavin) -- 0.2 mg
  • Vitamin B6 (Pyridoxine -- ) 0.8 mg
  • Vitamin B12 -- 2 mcg
  • Folic Acid -- 0.2 mg
  • Nicotinamide -- 2 mg
  • d-Pantothenic Acid -- 1 mg
My notes are 14.8cc => one Tablespoon
7.4 cc/ 1 1/2 teaspoon

Ingredients:
Corn Syrup, Soybean Oil, Malt Syrup, Cod Liver Oil, Cane Molasses, Methylcellulose, Water, Gelatin ByProducts, dl-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate (Vit. E), Sodiium Benzoate (Preservative), Manganese Sulfate, Iron Peptonate, Thiamine HCl, Nicotinamide, Calcium Pantotheante (Source of Calcium and Pantothenic Acid), Magnesium Sulfate, Pyridoxine HCl, Vitamin A Palmitate, Potassium Iodide (Source of Iodine and Potassium), Riboflavin 5' Phosphate Sodium (Source of Vit. B2 and Phosphorus), Vitamin A Palmitate & D3 Concentrate, Folic Acid and Cyanocobalamin (Vit. B12).
USES: To provbide supplemental caloric and nutritional intake in dogs and cats. Provides an added source of energy for hunting and working dogs. When the animal's caloric or nutritional intake is to be supplemented, give 1 1/2 teaspoons per 10 pounds of body weight daily. When animal is not consuming full feed ration, give 3 teaspoons (1 tablespoon) per 10 pounds of body weight daily. Calorie content 4420 kcal/kg (26.5 kcal/6g).
-----------------------
This would indicate a dose of between 1/2 teaspoon and 1 teaspoon per kilo pig. A quick look at google and vitamin A IU and "nutrient requirements" turns up some guidelines for dogs/cats/swine/horses/rabbits significantly lower than the 1045 IU provided by a standard dose of this product.

As I said, they would already be receiving many of these vitamins and minerals from a hand fed diet so this would be over and above what was needed, perhaps overdosing the animal. The Critical Care should have everything you need. Harkness and Wagner include a case study on scurvy that was treated with a multivitamin instead of plain C. The guinea pig did not get better and had new problems resulting from an overdose of fat soluble vitamins like A and D which build up in the body.
Last edited by Lynx on Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:11 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Cindi

Post   » Wed Jul 23, 2003 12:58 pm


Lynx, that is the Nutrical I was referring to. For rabbits my Vets always said a 1 inch strip or 1cc for rabbits 5 to 7 lbs. It would be too much vitaman/mineral while using the Critical Care. I've never used CC so I wasn't aware of all the Vitamins/Minerals it contained. I still say that it is great stuff and has helped my critters out more than once. After my rabbit's sugery she was on Nutrical and Co-Life and that really pulled her through. (she wasn't expected to survive). I still think that if a piggie won't eat and you don't have any CC on hand, it would be at least a temporary alternative til you could get the CC.
Thank you for the info/warning though.
Cindi

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Wed Jul 23, 2003 2:57 pm


I still would not advise it (of course, people do what they want -- its just that I'm not going to advise using it). Any food you give your guinea pig will have vitamins and minerals. A pellet mash has added vitamins and minerals also (see the bag for how much of what). There are just too many ways it can go wrong, not to mention this is a product for dogs and cats which have very different nutritional requirements from guinea pigs.

So, as you can see, there do seem to be legitmate reasons for discouraging its use.

Charybdis

Post   » Wed Jul 23, 2003 9:11 pm


Well, the baby is still alive. He is only 55 grams, though. Way too small.

kleenmama
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Wed Jul 23, 2003 9:19 pm


The "still alive" part is the extremely encouraging news! And he has gained 10 grams. Ok, so it's not huge, but if they are failing they usually lose weight.

Does the little guy seem normal in all other respects? I've never had a Mom reject a baby unless she rejected the entire litter, or there was something wrong with the baby.

I'm pulling for you and the little critter!!

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