Should I worry? Lazy "rag doll" pig

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pinta

Post   » Sat Apr 11, 2009 5:45 pm


I've never really grasped how to tell by the skin test. My vet does it all the time though I don't know how indicative it is if you have a fleshy or muscular pig. Not to mention it's damned hard to tell what's going on if you have a hairy pig.

I do know that the max dose of lasix(diuretic) is going to be dehydrating.

In my experience, dehydrated pigs are lethargic and have no appetite. You don't want them to get to this point. Your vet was probably trying to be kind to you as subcues for the novice are a bit of a bitch. But vets seldom give the owner the supplies to do one just for the heck of it. I would take being given the supplies as a hint to do a subcue.

Make sure the fluids are blood temp wam.

A 20 cc subcue can't hurt and can only help.

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poppypiggy

Post   » Sat Apr 11, 2009 6:35 pm


Thank you for your input, pinta! I tried the best I could to give Poppy a subcue today, but even when my husband held her really tight she wiggled a lot, and I only managed to get a few ml (2 - 3) into her before the needle came out again. She protested all that she could. I lost the nerve, and didn't try again - I hope that won't do any damage to her. I also rered my notes from the vet visit, and it says only to give subcues if Poppy seems dehydrated. Perhaps my vet is differnt from the rest? Besides Poppy was in really bad shape when we brought her in, so when we left the vet said she more or less expected to see us the next day because Poppy would most likely need more oxygen. But she perked up much faster then expected, so I think she responds well to the treatment.

I have syringed a lot of water to Poppy orally throughout the day, and have managed to get much into her (more than 50 ml) and also a lot of Critical Care, so the total amount of water has been more than 100 ml, I am sure. Poppy has not been lethargic, but she has not eaten very much. She has munched some hay now and then, all the fresh grass I hav given her, and I suspect she could have eaten a whole romaine lettuce all by herself if I would let her. She is bright eyed and seems content.

I will try another subcue tomorrow. And will make sure it is the right temperature.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sat Apr 11, 2009 7:57 pm


Sounds like you need some of the butterfly needles described on the subcue page cavykatie linked to. I hope she improves.

pinta

Post   » Sun Apr 12, 2009 7:34 am


If you got more than 50mls of fluid into her via syringe you've done the equivalent of a subcue.

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poppypiggy

Post   » Sun Apr 12, 2009 6:45 pm


From what I read I think it would have been a little bit easier to do the subcue if I had the butterfly needles, Lynx. I hope she improves, too! It looks rather promising, as she is eating some hay, and all the romaine, fresh gras and dandelion leaves she gets (I have to hold back on it, otherwise I am afraid she will bloat), and she is cooperative when I give her critical care and water.

I am glad to hear that syringing water is as uesful, too, pinta! Today I have gotten much more than 50 ml into her; I think close to 100 ml in addition to the CC, so I am sure her kidneys are well flushed, then.

Poppy's nose and lips have been a nice pink most of the day, but I noticed that her ears have a shade of purple tonight. Hopefully that is normal. I if gets worse I will call the vet tomorrow.

pinta

Post   » Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:31 pm


Purple edges on the ears indicates circulatory problems. She may need more oxygen and a readjustment of heart meds. Ask your vet if they have a loan out oxygen cannister.

Worse case scenario with the ears is the purple will turn black and the edges will die off resulting in smaller ears. This happened to one of my first heart pigs.

Do take it as a clue the circulation needs help.

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poppypiggy

Post   » Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:56 am


Thank you, pinta! Yes, I don't think her meds are adjusted right, so I have tried to call my vet about this today, but she is apparently busy, and hasn't called back yet.

Would you suggest that I ask the vet if I can increase the Fortekor? Poppy gets 1.25 mg daily.

Of Lasix she gets 5 mg twice a day, so if I understand you right it is not adviceable to increase that any further.

When we first took Poppy in on Thursday, the vet and I discussed how to be able to give Poppy oxygen during the weekend if necessary, as the clinic doesn't have a loan out unit at the moment. The reason is that it is difficult to get oxygen in canisters that are small enough to handle (I live in a small town, far from any larger cities; even divers complain about the difficulties to get hold of oxygen), but my vet promised to look into it. Thursday we just concluded that we would bring Poppy back to the clinic if she needed it, but until yesterday she has been fine. Today she is about the same as yesterday, so I have decided that I will bring her back to the vet tomorrow morning, if not berfore.

Tracis
Let Sleeping Pigs Lie

Post   » Mon Apr 13, 2009 3:53 pm


Sending good thoughts for Poppy, and I hope you hear from your vet soon.

Not sure if this is helpful, but if you are able to get oxygen in a canister there are some ideas for building an oxygen environment at home on this link:
LINKS - Nebulizer Unit and Oxygen Environment

Some links to subcue tips and tricks threads:
LINKS - Fluid Therapy / "Subcues"

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poppypiggy

Post   » Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:08 pm


Thank you, tracis! And thanks for the links! In fact I showed the link about building your own oxygen unit to my vet, and she thought it looked very cool, but the problem is to get the oxygen. Hopefully she will find out more, and we can treat Poppy at home later on. But the best is of course if we can get the medicines to work so well that she can do without any oxygen at all.

I will read over the subcue thread, and hopefully get some good tips there - so far I have not tried giving any more to Poppy, but I want to learn it for when it becomes necessary

I have now talked with the vet by phone, and Poppy and I have an appointment at the clinic in the morning. Poppy will probably get some oxygen treatment then, and stay there most of the day.

The vet also agreed on giving Poppy another dose of Fortekor tonight, so for the time being she will be on 1.25 mg twice daily, and 5 mg Lasix twice daily. Hopefully that will make her feel better, and turn her cute little ears light pink again!

pinta

Post   » Mon Apr 13, 2009 5:04 pm


Doesn't hurt to ask. The top dose one of our pigs is on is 0.75ml twice a day but you'd have to do a search to find out what the mg/ml is. The info rubbed off the bottle but I know I've posted it before.

We have a portable oxygen cannister old people use when going out and about. Medical supply places should have them. I don't think you can use the same stuff as divers.

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Bugs Mom

Post   » Mon Apr 13, 2009 5:50 pm


For what it may be worth to you my little one weighs a little over 2lbs 2ozs and gets 2.4ml Benazapril 2mg/ml per day. She is also on 1ml Furosemide (10mg/ml) per day as well as 1/2 a tablet of Pimobendan per day.

She has been on these doses for awhile now so apparently GP's can tolerate high doses of these meds. Needless to say though mine is at the max dose of all this stuff.

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poppypiggy

Post   » Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:06 pm


Thanks, pinta and Bugs Mom! This morning Poppy was better than yesterday, but I took her to the vet anyway. She (new one; Kirsti was busy elsewhere) decided that oxygen was unnecesseary, and I agreed, so I brought Poppy home with me after the check up. She will be on the 1.25 mg Fortekor and 5 mg furosemide twice daily for the rest of the week, and then I will bring her in again Friday or Monday, depending on how well she is doing. I am aware that it might take up to about 2 weeks before heart meds kick in, but hopefully it will be possible to see some improvement by the end of the week.

I think the Bug has about the same weight as Poppy, so I am glad to see that she gets about the same amount of medicine, except that Poppy doesn't get Pimobendan. What is Pimobendan doing for Bug's heart?

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