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salana
GL is Just Peachy

Post   » Wed Sep 17, 2003 12:09 am


I think the "carrier" idea is that a few bacteria might remain as normal "mucosal fauna" or whatever, but the guinea pig's immune system would keep it in check. However, there really isn't any data on whether this actually happens, is there?

If anyone finds any more obscure articles that may be helpful, I'm more than happy to get them from the Vet School.

Charybdis

Post   » Wed Sep 17, 2003 1:10 am


Just spoke with Dr. K again. She commended you guys on your research.

She is also going to have a second look at the lab reports.

This is her final word on it:

There doesn't seem to be actual evidence that lancing the CL abscess will cause it to be MORE airborne. She says that the airborne particles are from the respiratory tract, not from the pus bing exposed to open air. Therefore, Sebastian isn't any more of an airborne risk than before his lumps were aspirated. But of course, there is a contact risk with open abscesses.

She has a couple of different ideas:

Strep/Staph are everywhere. Poor conditions, stress, suppressed immune systems, other illnesses, are more likely to bring on a bacterial infection than a hay poke. So the theory that the normal route of infection is an injury to oral mucosa doesn't sit well with her, especially since guinea pigs are supposed to feed on coarse material for fiber.

That kinda seems reasonable, since the dumpster pigs had all of the above instigating factors and it is unlikely that hay pokes caused both cases (Sebastian's and Rowan's).

She also thinks that this isn't as serious a condition as we think it is. If strep and staph are "everywhere" then it is always a danger. And if one gets an infection, you treat it, cure it, and move on.

Dr. R's final response: "why don't I see you again in 2 weeks?"

So here's the plan. Pigs in the healthy room are clear. There were no lumps there except Phyllis', they had 2 weeks of Baytril, and are ready to be adopted/fostered.

The dumpster pigs, I'll hang onto for a while. Sebastian will be moved back with them (Dr. K agrees) and I'll build them a nice big C & C and hang onto them for a couple more months at least before considering adoption or fostering.

I think we've all learned a lot and I'm not sure that we've come to any definitive answers. But you can hold up at least two opposing extremes:

In lab reports, CL is a huge devastating deal that mandates "agressive depopulation" because it is airborne and will create carriers. All stock must be destroyed.

But whatever was here (gee, wish I knew!) was easily treated and hasn't gone beyond the animals who brought it in. Time will tell if there are recurrences. But for now we have to move on.

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Pigglies

Post   » Wed Sep 17, 2003 1:16 am


Another thought is... since lots of the reports were old... maybe back then diseases all seemed more serious? For example, when I had pneumonia as a kid, the doctors said that if it was 20 years ago it was an unknown type that I had. Even when I had it I was on several experimental drugs (so that's what happened to me LOL). But it would have definitely been life threatening before that, but later it was not.

Just a thought.

This is beginning to sound much better than we first though... and perhaps draining those abcesses like Dr.R had first recommended really wasn't as stupid of an idea as we thought just awhile after that.

Nurgle
...what, what, what?

Post   » Wed Sep 17, 2003 11:14 am


Another thing to consider, is the conditions that lab guineas are kept in. There are increasing reports in science literature that keeping a social animal isolated, away from others, significantly increases its risk of becoming ill. I'm sure all the rescues are going 'Duh!' at this, but for the longest time this is how lab animals were (and still are) kept. Small cages, isolated from others, no doubt a serious illness becomes something that is very deadly.

A beloved pet, kept with its herd (assuming they've all been exposed anyhow), will recover much faster than an isloated, lonely guinea.

Something else to mull over.

InkysMom

Post   » Wed Sep 17, 2003 1:20 pm


Oh, dear, Nurgle, now I feel bad keeping Inky as an "only" pig. Fortunately he recovered swiftly from his illness (ironically contracted when he was being pet-sat by friends who have a pig he got to play with, who did NOT fall ill).

My financial situation is such that I am not able to take on another pet. As "Ellagor's" current thread says so plainly, if you can't afford to take care of a pet properly, don't get it, and I follow that advice. Housing and feeding my children, Inky and our dog are almost more than we can handle already. I have gone to great lengths in the past to provide the utmost in veterinary care and will willingly do so again - but I won't up the exposure. Also, the emotional cost of pet-keeping is very hard for me and I don't think I could stand worrying about anyone else!

Inky doesn't seem lonely and he gets plenty of attention from the family. We will have to do for now!

ChunkyPiggies

Post   » Wed Sep 17, 2003 2:03 pm


Its ok Inky, at least you are aware of that. I'm sure when you are able to, you will get Inky a buddy. GPs are expensive pets to keep.

Evangeline

Post   » Wed Sep 17, 2003 5:25 pm


I know it's late, but I just read this. For the record, I've used Chloramphenicol orally at least a dozen times over the years and have never had one single pig go off their feed.

Evangeline

Post   » Wed Sep 17, 2003 5:27 pm


He said it's a "still" abscess.
Are you sure he didn't say it was a "sterile abcess"? That would make more sense.

Charybdis

Post   » Wed Sep 17, 2003 6:41 pm


Could have been. We were speaking on my cell phone.

E. another vet has confirmed your experience with chloramphenicol. It seems it is becoming a popular drug with guinea pigs.

Nurgle, you are so right. Dr. K mentioned that also, that susceptibility is largely dependent on conditions. The dumpster pigs were filthy when they got here, and it wasn't from the dumpster (they were in a box in there for only a few minutes). They were all emaciated and dehydrated and of course, the broken legs. Major stress and immune-weakening factors.

kleenmama
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Wed Sep 17, 2003 9:34 pm


I have used chloramphenicol with a pig that had septic arthritis. It seems to be used with bone infections. Apparently it's a pretty good drug and I believe it does penetrate pus, where Baytril doesn't.

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