I'm worried about Rosie.
I can't say that I'm scared because of the pictures, but I'm scared to think that this could happen to one of my pigs.
Para, I believe that the first pictures displays the elongated molars on both jaws trapping the tongue, right?
And in the second picture the left jaw molars have already been filed, and there is a kind of a sling pulling the lower incisors as well as a swab holding the tongue down. So this is about half of the procedure on the bottom molars, correct?
I believe the same filing was performed in the upper molars. How long did it take to complete all the procedure?
Para, I believe that the first pictures displays the elongated molars on both jaws trapping the tongue, right?
And in the second picture the left jaw molars have already been filed, and there is a kind of a sling pulling the lower incisors as well as a swab holding the tongue down. So this is about half of the procedure on the bottom molars, correct?
I believe the same filing was performed in the upper molars. How long did it take to complete all the procedure?
-
Paravati
- I GAVE, dammit!
The first picture does show the original teeth, with the lower molars trapping the tongue. If you look carefully at the top of Rosie's mouth you can see his upper left molars (shown on the right) hanging down a bit. They are fine, and didn't get filed or anything.
The second picture shows Rosie's left molars (shown on the right) that were clipped and filed. The right molars (shown on the left) were in-progress. The Dr. used a gauze sling and a small pad to wrap around the bottom incisors to help hold his mouth open and give her some stability for filing. His tongue was sticking out because he's used to it hanging out like that and because he was asleep, so they put a pad there so as not to injure it.
Since the top molars were fine the procedure didn't take that long. I think from the time they asked me to come in (once he was already asleep) to the time they wrapped him in a towel and let me hold him for a minute took about 15 minutes or so.
He woke up 15 minutes later just fine. He's a little sleepy but otherwise ok. He ate well about 20 minutes after the procedure.
The second picture shows Rosie's left molars (shown on the right) that were clipped and filed. The right molars (shown on the left) were in-progress. The Dr. used a gauze sling and a small pad to wrap around the bottom incisors to help hold his mouth open and give her some stability for filing. His tongue was sticking out because he's used to it hanging out like that and because he was asleep, so they put a pad there so as not to injure it.
Since the top molars were fine the procedure didn't take that long. I think from the time they asked me to come in (once he was already asleep) to the time they wrapped him in a towel and let me hold him for a minute took about 15 minutes or so.
He woke up 15 minutes later just fine. He's a little sleepy but otherwise ok. He ate well about 20 minutes after the procedure.
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Paravati
- I GAVE, dammit!
I really don't know. I didn't even know it was happening to MY pig until he quit eating and almost died - All in about 12 hours.
I think some people think it's a genetic thing, a predisposition, if you will. I have read the Malocclusion page here where it is stated that jaw muscle strength might be to blame. I really don't know.
Pinta would probably be a good person to ask. Hopefully she'll come along and offer her advice. I'm going to get a Chin-Sling for Rosie, and we are hoping it will help. My vet really seems to think so, although she did say that it was probable we would have to come back and get his teeth done again.
She showed me his "bite" - With his mouth closed but his lips drawn back you can see that the teeth almost meet. She said that his muscles are probably very slack since his mouth has been hanging open all this time and that the Chin-Sling sounds like it will really help him. I am hoping. It was nerve-wracking seeing my Rosie on the table, looking dead except for his slow deep breathing. I hate that limp look!
I think some people think it's a genetic thing, a predisposition, if you will. I have read the Malocclusion page here where it is stated that jaw muscle strength might be to blame. I really don't know.
Pinta would probably be a good person to ask. Hopefully she'll come along and offer her advice. I'm going to get a Chin-Sling for Rosie, and we are hoping it will help. My vet really seems to think so, although she did say that it was probable we would have to come back and get his teeth done again.
She showed me his "bite" - With his mouth closed but his lips drawn back you can see that the teeth almost meet. She said that his muscles are probably very slack since his mouth has been hanging open all this time and that the Chin-Sling sounds like it will really help him. I am hoping. It was nerve-wracking seeing my Rosie on the table, looking dead except for his slow deep breathing. I hate that limp look!
Para, I hope Rosie continues to improve. THanks for sharing those startling photos. I've never seen inside the mouth so far back before.
Lynx, could you add these photos to the Maloclusion page? I think people need to know and see what can happen and why they need to take their pigs to a qualified Cavy vet or Dentist.
Lynx, could you add these photos to the Maloclusion page? I think people need to know and see what can happen and why they need to take their pigs to a qualified Cavy vet or Dentist.
I stumbled onto the jaw muscle problem with Willie. He was losing weight, got his teeth filed and still kept losing weight. I think he had 3 or 4 filings and I could tell he was going to starve to death anyway. I put him up on the arm of a chair and stared at his mouth soon after a filing and saw his mouth was ajar. Took him back to Dr. Legendre and complained bitterly his teeth were still propping open his mouth. Dr. Legendre insisted his bite was perfect and the molars were fine. A light bulb went on over our heads: "It's not the teeth - it's the jaw". The rest of Willie's story is at https://www.guinealynx.info/chinsling.html
I believe we were the first to make a connection between malocclusion and jaw muscles. Now when Dr. Legendre does seminars, he includes this information.
Another recently discovered cause of malocclusion is the jaw getting misaligned and stuck in one spot(usually gets stuck on a ridge). Weak jaw muscles can make them more susceptible to this. An animal physical therapist can maneuver a misaligned jaw back into position but the muscles must be built up again to keep it in position.
An vet won't notice this misalignment while the animal is sedated because all the muscles and joints are relaxed. Misaligned jaws can be felt. They feel thick and unmoving on one or both sides. The lower jaw should move back and forth, to and fro, and up and down. You should feel the jaw (where it hinges) move well while they are chewing.
I believe that weakened jaw muscles (age related)is the most common cause of malocclusion in adult/senior pigs.
How can we prevent this from happening?
Reduce or completely remove pellets forcing them to get their calories from hay and grass. Dr. Legendre advocates complete removal of pellets. They will be forced to continually chew to get the same nutrition from hay that they get from pellets.
Dr. Legendre has told me that malocclusion does not occur in wild pigs to the degree it does in domesticated pigs. (He may have even said it doesn't occur in wild pigs at all.) Another well known dental vet (David Crossley, I think) did a study of skulls of wild pigs of various ages and the teeth were perfect. He attributed this to the rough and low nutrient diet that forced them to work their teeth continually (and in doing so, work their jaw muscles).
Causes of malocclusion:
1) genetic - usually seen in young animals under the age of 2.
2) weakened jaw muscles (TMJ)reducing the grinding contact of the molars - usually starts to be seen in animals over the age of 3.
3) jaw misalignment - usually caused by a weakness on one side of the jaw that allows an awkward jaw movement to lock the jaw into place. Usually seen in older pigs - diagonal incisors indicates a problem on one side of the jaw that could be jaw misalignment or TMJ on just one side.
I believe we were the first to make a connection between malocclusion and jaw muscles. Now when Dr. Legendre does seminars, he includes this information.
Another recently discovered cause of malocclusion is the jaw getting misaligned and stuck in one spot(usually gets stuck on a ridge). Weak jaw muscles can make them more susceptible to this. An animal physical therapist can maneuver a misaligned jaw back into position but the muscles must be built up again to keep it in position.
An vet won't notice this misalignment while the animal is sedated because all the muscles and joints are relaxed. Misaligned jaws can be felt. They feel thick and unmoving on one or both sides. The lower jaw should move back and forth, to and fro, and up and down. You should feel the jaw (where it hinges) move well while they are chewing.
I believe that weakened jaw muscles (age related)is the most common cause of malocclusion in adult/senior pigs.
How can we prevent this from happening?
Reduce or completely remove pellets forcing them to get their calories from hay and grass. Dr. Legendre advocates complete removal of pellets. They will be forced to continually chew to get the same nutrition from hay that they get from pellets.
Dr. Legendre has told me that malocclusion does not occur in wild pigs to the degree it does in domesticated pigs. (He may have even said it doesn't occur in wild pigs at all.) Another well known dental vet (David Crossley, I think) did a study of skulls of wild pigs of various ages and the teeth were perfect. He attributed this to the rough and low nutrient diet that forced them to work their teeth continually (and in doing so, work their jaw muscles).
Causes of malocclusion:
1) genetic - usually seen in young animals under the age of 2.
2) weakened jaw muscles (TMJ)reducing the grinding contact of the molars - usually starts to be seen in animals over the age of 3.
3) jaw misalignment - usually caused by a weakness on one side of the jaw that allows an awkward jaw movement to lock the jaw into place. Usually seen in older pigs - diagonal incisors indicates a problem on one side of the jaw that could be jaw misalignment or TMJ on just one side.
-
salana
- GL is Just Peachy
For what it's worth, I'd like to add that Einstein's first set of lower molars do the same thing. They started off really horrible (completely trapping the tongue when he was 3 weeks old) and have gradually gotten better. He has had them filed at 6 and 10 weeks, something like that, and each time they were not as bad as the previous time. At 6 weeks, for example, they were arching but not trapping quite as thoroughly, and at 10 weeks, only the left was overgrown. This improvement has coincided exactly with his eating harder foods (more hay and alfalfa, grass, "stalky" vegetables like kale and broccoli and "crunchy" ones like bell pepper, more crumbly pellets as opposed to pellet mash).
I don't know if he was born with very bad teeth, or if his initial diet (consisting mostly of Suzi's milk, with only sporadic attempts to eat anything else) let them get out of control. Probably both.
Those are wonderful photos, Para. Hmm, I wonder if the vet would let me take photos of Einstein's mouth the next time I take him in.
I don't know if he was born with very bad teeth, or if his initial diet (consisting mostly of Suzi's milk, with only sporadic attempts to eat anything else) let them get out of control. Probably both.
Those are wonderful photos, Para. Hmm, I wonder if the vet would let me take photos of Einstein's mouth the next time I take him in.
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