URI - Sneezing/Wheezing - Dandelion & Burr (first pigs)

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JadeMagpie

Post   » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:15 pm


More URI problems!

My current vet lists Guinea Pigs as animals that are served by the practice, but I am not terribly happy with the results. Also, her name isn't on the AEMV website (does that matter much?) and she isn't listed as an exotics specialist. This week, after being off ABs for one week, their URI symptoms have started to come back.

the first round of antibiotics were given for too short a period, and then they weren't working at all when we tried them again at a slightly larger dosage for a longer dosing period (Bactrim). I think we tried it for 5 days with symptoms progressing rather than clearing up.

After a re-check and some x-rays, I was given another medication (see previous posts) which DID work, and we seemed to be in the clear but for a few tiny dry sneezes here and there. The vet never gave me a definite answer as to how long to dose them for, plus they're young and growing rapidly, so the dosage from one week to the next should probably be different? We completed a little over two weeks, symptoms faded almost completely save for the occasional small dry sneeze.

Now I have an appointment with a vet whose name is on the Association of Exotic Mammal Veterinarians list, and whose partner is recommended by the house rabbit society.

In any case, when I called they said that both doctors had extensive experience with guinea pigs. I'll get them rechecked (had their records faxed over to the new vet this afternoon) on Wednesday.

My questions:
1. Housing: While they are sick, should I remove any particular types of houses or toys from their C&C? (I am thinking about the wood hideaway house there)
2. Cleaning: Is vinegar and hot water the best substance for cleaning? Should I be bleaching water bottles? Recommended soap or no soap for washing containers? Should I be cleaning out water bottles more than once a day?
3. Medication: How long are pigs typically on ABs for? I read on the AB page that there should be improvement after a few days, a week or two is standard for dosing -- is it normal/advisable to dose pigs for 3-4 weeks? I am worried about their GI. (I also give acidophilous on their veggies while they're on ABs)
4. GL vets: Are there any well known GL forum users in SE Wisconsin that can recommend a vet? Worst case scenario, I can drive to the Chicagoland area, but I was very surprised that there's not a single listing on the GL vet page for WI. :( I'd LOVE to hear from another GP owner in my area regarding the best vet to go to.
5. We live in a basement apartment with air conditioning - should I be using an air filter or a dehumidifier? I keep the AC vent closed for the most part because it'll get cold if I don't, and I keep the windows shut most of the time to keep the humidity under control. I have a fan going throughout the night to circulate air. Anything I should consider here? I have allergies, and I sleep in this same room as the pigs.

So far the symptoms are wet sneezes and congested sounding voices.

They're learning to eat their C tablets. I supervise them through eating half a tablet nightly, plus their veggies.

As an added note, I could just call my current vet and ask for a double dose of the last medication, do the whole routine again for two weeks and/or until the sneezing stops completely. I'm just a little disturbed by the number of vet visits it's taken to treat this -- is that normal for GPs? Should I expect 5+ visits to diagnose and treat something like a URI? If that's the case, maybe I am switching my vet too soon? What do you think?

I'm sorry if I've missed something and seem terribly confused or am asking obvious questions. I think I've spent a lot of time reading and I may have over-researched and missed important things. I just want my boars to feel better! Thanks so much!

User avatar
Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:12 pm


Depending on what is wrong, some antibiotics are used for multiple weeks. UTIs, for example, can benefit from a longer course of treatment.

Hopefully someone will share info on a good vet for you.

I would not worry about housing. Normal cleaning should be okay.

User avatar
JadeMagpie

Post   » Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:06 pm


We visited the House Rabbit Society recommended exotics vet in my area, and for the most part it looked and sounded like she knew what she was doing (a big improvement over the previous vet) -- but I have some questions.

1. She prescribed Baytril for my pigs, who are 2 months old. I asked about the age, but she said that since this URI has been hard to completely get rid of, and the last drug they were on (zeniquil) breaks down to Baytril, it wouldn't be much of a change except we'll be dosing them for longer, and possibly adding Doxycycline for the last week or so of their treatment. We've tried Bactrim first with my first vet, and it wasn't helping.

Should I be concerned about the Baytril since they are young, or is this the best thing since the URI has been so resistant?

2. She said that she believes the pigs have a combination of a bacterial infection AND a virus that was likely contracted from the breeder/petshop (boy have I ever learned my lesson, I promise) and related to bad genetics from poor early living conditions and over-breeding, etc, as is common with pet shop pigs.

Do pigs get viruses? Does this sound off to anybody, or right on target?

We went over their living environment in detail, she asked loads of questions. I asked her about moisture and temperature, etc. Seems like everything else is on target. She thoroughly inspected the boys. I've been making sure they get red pepper (high in vitamin C) with their regular veggie load, and have been working on getting them to take the Oxbow C supplement. I also have some Kleenmama hay & pellets on the way. Here's a photo I took last night (Dandelion is the creamy yellow one guy, and Burr is the sassy Abyssinian).

Image

User avatar
Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:05 pm


There are some reputable vets that give baytril to younger pigs. Not the best choice but sometimes more effective. Very important to watch for any signs of inappetence. www.guinealynx.info/_advice.html in which case you would contact the vet immediately (not eating)

More likely a bacterial infection than a virus but viruses are possible.

Stress can be a factor in illnesses.

User avatar
JadeMagpie

Post   » Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:59 pm


Hi all - quick update:

The story so far:

*Both boars came home with URI symptoms when they were purchased (bad choice) in mid-April.
*Pigs were approx. 8 weeks old then
*First round of Bactrim was given for a week, most symptoms trailed off. One week later, they were sneezing again.
* Tried Bactrim again, symptoms got worse.
* Switched to Zenequil, took this for two weeks. Symptoms came back.
*Symptoms to date include regular coughing and sneezing. Small sneezes were noticed first, as the illness progressed, sneezes got larger and wetter. Coughing occured throughout the day regardless of meal time, both pigs coughed.
*Changed vets (exotics specialist recommended by rabbit society with extensive GP experience) - got second opinion, are on the Baytril @ 3ml twice daily.


Current Issues:

1. Both still sneezing. Less wet, but still fairly frequent.

2. Still no noticeable discharge or eye crust, etc. Only sneezing.

3. Coughing has stopped

1. Burr & Dandelion both now happily eat their Oxbow Vit. C tablets.

2. They have been on Baytril for 2.5 weeks with no worsening of symptoms. Vet may add Doxycycline for the last week (we are on Baytril for one month says the vet.

---

I was reading about Bordetella -- could this be possible with our symptoms?

Has anyone else had a URI that just wouldn't leave?

Anything else I should be doing?

Is sneezing this frequently normal?

Thanks all!

User avatar
Bugs Mom

Post   » Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:25 pm


It could be the abs need changing. The test for Bordetella is a simple one and wouldn't hurt to rule out. They probably don't have it but it's always nice to know what they don't have too.

Are you giving a pro-biotic? As in humans, it's almost impossible to give too much.

User avatar
Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:42 pm


It sounds like you have tried some decent antibiotics. I would help you'd get results! What kind of bedding are they on? Is your environment at all dusty?

User avatar
JadeMagpie

Post   » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:26 am


Hi! Thanks folks.

Lynx - The bedding is Fleece over towels changed weekly (should I change more often?)

I wash with vinegar and unscented detergent. I sweep it out daily AND I change out hand towels that sit under their hidey-houses.

Hay is Oxbow & Kleenmama.

We are in the basement (my large bedroom), the other room has cat boxes which are cleaned regularly. I do have to dust pretty frequently. Would an air filter help? Can you get free-standing air filters?


Bugs Mom - I am wondering if not dosing them long enough on the last two medications has made them rather drug resistant? I think we'll be giving Doxycycline soon WITH the Bactrim. I will call my vet on Wednesday or Thursday and see if we need to do another medication.

I am giving Acidophilus pro-biotic powder (from gel-cap) on moist veggies every evening after medicine. They get one Oxbow C tablet in the morning with medicine. I was giving them food in the AM too, but this made poops too moist.

One thing my vet said was that the coughing (which has now stopped) was symptomatic of a lower lung infection (is this true?) and my LAST vet did x-rays, which showed their entire lungs being sort of gray (meaning that they might have been full of fluid or something?) Is this typical for a respiratory infection? Is there such a thing as a typical respiratory infection?

On another note, over the last month we've gained about 100+ grams each. Dandelion is fast approaching 950g and Burr is nearing the 825g mark! Steady gains of 3-9 grams per day on average. But the sneezing just won't stop. :\

User avatar
Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:31 pm


Is there any mustiness in the basement? Do you see mold on anything? If you're using fleece, there should be no dust.

I was trying to determine if there was anything in the environment causing this though a bacterial infection is much more likely (what you have been treating for).

User avatar
JadeMagpie

Post   » Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:06 pm


I have been wondering the same thing Lynx -- except that despite the fact the AB's haven't killed the sneezing, they DID kill the coughing, and they DID help with the snuffly/sniffly noises and the very wet sneezes.

The basement is moist, and there have been some water leakage problems -- but the leaks were cleaned up immediately and a dehumidifier has been run, and I spend most of my time there. I don't see any mold, but the room hasn't been inspected.

SO, it's possible that it is an environmental thing -- but more probable that it is an illness. We'll see if that fourth AB doesn't do the trick, and I'll talk to my vet about environmental factors or ways to prevent future environmental issues.

Will update in a few weeks. If anyone sees anything that stands out to them, any feedback is welcomed and so appreciated! You guys are awesome.

User avatar
Jaycey
Supporter in 2014

Post   » Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:26 pm


Wishing you all the luck with this two little handsome guys.

I don't really have any feedback, but this reminds me of the situation I had when I first got Arnold. He was a gift bought from a breeder. He had a terrible cough for months. My vets weren't guinea pig knowledgeable at all, but they thought it was pneumonia, as he had cloudy lungs on an x-ray.

He was treat with baytril, and I'm not entirely sure it worked, as he seemed to get better as he grew up. I'm not sure if he grew out of it, or if the medicine worked.

I really hope you're able to find some better results than I was able too.

User avatar
JadeMagpie

Post   » Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:53 am


Well - we are at 3 weeks on ABs and STILL sneezing.

I am a little concerned about Burr. His name is "Burr" because he's always been a very vocal pig, which means he was rumbling all the time at everything when he first came home.

The "burr" sound he'd make was mostly in response to new sounds.

NOW he is rumbling every time he is picked up or stroked. (esp. if petted for a length of time, and esp. if he's touched anywhere besides behind the ears).

Between the rumbling noise, which is short and softer than his normal "dominant pig" rumble, he will make squeaky pig noises. They sound like a combination of the happy gurgle/clucking noises and an actual pit curly-tailed pig's squeal.

I have read on other people's threads that extra rumbling can sometimes mean pain? He doesn't bite, but he has NOT liked to sit still at all recently, is very very squirmy, and won't sit on my lap or chest any more. This has been going on for the last two or three days, with yesterday being "super-rumble-Wednesday" it seemed.

He's about 5 to 6 months old. Prior to this he had recently started mounting and humping Dandelion, so I am wondering if this is primarily hormonal? Is he just being sassy because he's becoming a big boy now?

I will try to get a video or a soundbite of his noise-making tonight.

Regardless, due to the fact that both pigs are still sick, I called my vet to tell her what was going on. Waiting on a call back. Any thoughts?

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