Crystal formation in the urine.

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Fred_and_co

Post   » Sun Aug 14, 2011 11:17 am


My memory is a bit hazy on time scales - hindsight I would have wrote them down. About 3 months ago Patrick started urinating blood, went to the Vet he was Xrayed no stones showed. A urine Analysis was done which showed very few crystals. I'm sure at this point a course of Septrin was prescribed.

One month later and Patrick then had a very unpleasant evening - Video attached (The gasp at the end is me don't be mistaken it's not Patrick).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXQWeBTW_nk

This time he lost 80 grams in a week and his pellet's decreased in size I began Syringing him critical Care. Went back to my vet and it was found he had spurs on his teeth, he had a dental to rectify the problem. Urine Analysis was clear of crystals and infection despite the above video which clearly show's Patrick had something going on with his bladder. I should mention after the above video Patrick did stop squeaking for a short period of time can't remember how long.

Patrick started urinating blood again - 3 weeks ago my Parents took him to a local vet where he was prescribed Antibiotics this time Baytril. After a week of Antibiotics the blood stopped but the squeaking continued for a further week well on antibiotics. Patrick was squeak free however this relief was short lived within 7 days the squeaking returned. Went back to the Vet my parents used (2nd August) - an Ultrasound was done this time. They checked 'kidneys, bladder and urethral' no stones present. A urine sample was took which showed no infection, blood cells however where present and a large amount of tiny crystals.

Patrick is now squeaking constantly despite pain relief. This is a video from today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdC_ldHlQTs

The local vet suggested I syringe additional water, give minimal pellets, keep him on a mainly hay diet and try intermittent courses of Antibiotics (when he is particular bad), along with Loxicom to help with inflammation of the bladder wall. He is also on Cytease daily.

Is there anything I can do to help Patrick further, preferably I would like him to be squeak free, if that's possible!

SardonicSmile

Post   » Sun Aug 14, 2011 11:59 am


He may not have stones, but he may have sludge in his bladder. My piggie has it and it is very difficult to spot on Xray.

Here's some information
http://www.guinealynx.info/stones.html


I do not know if you can get him pain free. My piggie has her off days and her good days. Some days she pees out sludge and she squeeks in pain, other days she seems fine.

I have her on Shilintong since about a week. I don't know if this is doing her any good, will have to wait and see if her pain free periods will get longer.

I have reduced her calcium intake from her pellets, veggies, hay and water in hopes to prevent more sludge from forming.

I have had her on painkillers, but they did nothing to relieve the pain she experienced while peeing so I took her off them, she is pain free, except sometimes when peeing.

I hope you can help your piggie with all this information!

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:10 pm


This has to be very hard for you both. How long ago was the most recent xray? Could you get better pain medication? While stones are the most likely, xrays can turn up other causes for pain (arthritis, spinal injuries).

Ditto SardonicSmile on the possibility of sludge (and perhaps interstitial cystitis).

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Fred_and_co

Post   » Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:52 pm


Lynx is crystal formation IC - both vet have seen the crystals in his urine.

His last xray was 3 months ago - when the problem first initially started it. He DID however have an Ultrasound the 2nd of August 2011, he also had an Xray last year along year as well as this year on both occasions no arthritis showed or anything unusual - my previous pig had arthritis and my vet had no problem spotting this on Xray but said Patrick had nothing to indicate what was causing the pain other than the crystals of course.

As for Sludge, I have not noticed any particular bad sludge periods and there was no sludge at all appeared on the Ultrasound or that I have seen in his urine.

Is there any better pain medication you could suggest? Loxicom is the Dog Suspension and I believe it is just another name for metacam, I didn't know there was any better pain killer that I could try.'
Last edited by Fred_and_co on Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
DMac
Supporter in '10, '11, & '12

Post   » Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:54 pm


Did the vet do a culture to see what antibiotic would be effective? It seems as if antibiotics helped but didn't knock it out. Maybe he needs a different AB and a longer course.

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Fred_and_co

Post   » Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:12 pm


They did effectively knock the blood out of his urine. He has had urine dipsticks and his urine analysed done every time he has had this issue which hasn't shown any infection so I do not feel a urine culture is worth doing especially as I know he has a large amount of Crystals in his urine (which I don't believe is caused by infection but to be fair I don't understand what causes crystal formation which is why I'm asking on GL, I haven't saw any mention of crystal formation unless of course it's called something else).

I believe the Crystals are likely to be the cause of his pain and given his distress with his current bladder problems I do not think it's fair to do a urine culture as it would in my eyes only exceed in irritating his bladder further, of course if you think this would be necessary I can request this is done although I do feel this would be pointless and most likely show as I suspect no infection present as surely one of the urine analysis or dipstick would have shown an infection - of course this is just my thinking.

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DMac
Supporter in '10, '11, & '12

Post   » Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:29 pm


I'm just going by the fact that the only relief you've seen so far is with an antibiotic. That the condition returned means either the AB was not effective or the course wasn't long enough to fully knock out the infection. I'm not a vet, but it seems there is an infection somewhere in his body that responded to the AB.

User avatar
Fred_and_co

Post   » Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:59 pm


Thanks for your input, I think it's something I'll need to consider but I don't like the idea of sticking a needle in his bladder as I already know how painful his bladder is by his continuous squeaking and to be fair I wouldn't want a needle stuck in my bladder either which is why I'm hesitant to do so to Patrick. :(

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DMac
Supporter in '10, '11, & '12

Post   » Sun Aug 14, 2011 9:53 pm


I suppose the alternative is to start trying different ABs until one works. At least you know Baytril worked once, so maybe a longer course? Or Baytril with another AB at the same time?

I hope Patrick gets better soon!

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PinkRufus
Contributor in 2014

Post   » Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:51 am


My Edgar has trouble with crystals/sludge; he's actually going through this now. What I do for him when I see blood in his urine is to give him a course of Bactrim (14 days), increase fluids with a syringe and give Shilintong. I also take him to the vet to screen for stones; which you have already done for Patrick. I don't usually bother with a urine analysis because the Bactrim will affect the results. If he shows a lot of discomfort or pain while passing the sludge I give him some Metacam. Increasing fluids during this time is essential to help flush out his bladder.

If you want to get a urine sample for your vet you do not have to go the needle route. I never allow them to take urine from my pigs that way. I collect it myself by syringing water until they urinate into a sanitized container, then draw it up into a syringe and take that to the vet.

Cranberries are also helpful for urinary tract issues.

Sending well wishes to Patrick, hope he feels better soon!

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Fred_and_co

Post   » Mon Aug 15, 2011 6:40 am


Hi PinkRufus -

Thanks for your input - I'm glad it's not just me and everytime we go to the vet I do as you have advised. Urne analysis is done but I take the sample myself and it always back negative of infection but crystals present with blood cells. The last urine analysis was done 2nd August same date as the ultra sound.

Do you understand how the crystals are formed - I linked it to IC don't know if that's correct. I have shillington in the house do you find this helps? What diet do you have your pig on Patrick is on just hay and grass - I syringe cranberry and water daily along with give cytease and he has been getting Loxicom (ie metacam) daily as his episodes appear to be very painful. I also give Vit C tablet daily.

Is there anything else I can do - I was hoping to isolate his triggers.

Patrick also gets relief with Baytril or Septin if his episodes are producing blood but the squeak normally returns well he's on the med's but it does sort out the blood.

User avatar
Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:51 am


If you take the sample yourself, it has time to cool and there may be more crystals (the process of cooling encourages them to precipitate out).

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Fred_and_co

Post   » Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:08 am


Thanks Lynx - that's helpful. I try and encourage a full bladder at our next vet trip!

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PinkRufus
Contributor in 2014

Post   » Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:03 pm


"Is there anything else I can do - I was hoping to isolate his triggers."

That's the hard part. I feel that I am already doing everything known to help Edgar, but he still keeps having trouble. The triggers may be different for different pigs, but these are the things that I have noticed with Edgar. His episodes always occur every August without fail no matter what I do. So, I'm assuming there may be a temperature related component (in his case). The other thing is that he has a very small bladder. The vet who did his stone surgery last August told me that, but until I saw it on ultrasound this year I hadn't realized how small. His bladder is about half the size of most.

I don't know if any of this is helpful to you. But maybe you can start looking for similarities in Patrick's episodes. Pay attention to everything, what greens are given, what the quality of hay is certain times of year, etc. Also keep track of how much water he is drinking daily.

There could also be an underlying health condition that you are unaware of. Maybe some blood work would help?

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Fred_and_co

Post   » Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:14 pm


I have had Patrick on just hay and grass for a good few days and still squeaking :(.

Thanks for the reply PinkRufus, I think I will need to consider where to go next.

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Fred_and_co

Post   » Sun Aug 21, 2011 2:37 pm


Patrick is now passing blood again, unfortunately I have to work tomorrow and the next available date I can get to my vet is next Saturday, which is just to long for Patrick to wait. My mum has kindly agreed to take him back to the vet who did the Ultrasound, he has an appointment first thing and I have typed up Patrick's history for the vet.

I'm really at a loss as to what to do now, it's just an ongoing nightmare!

This is a video I took today, his squeaking is constant but now we have blood to. Hoping the vet can suggest something new or at least more effective pain killers!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK9BlRmjKnE

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:29 pm


Will you be having a new xray too? I am sorry you are both struggling with this.

C Cole-Chakotay

Post   » Sun Aug 21, 2011 6:07 pm


Poor little boy! I hope the vet can help him tomorrow.

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Fred_and_co

Post   » Sun Aug 21, 2011 6:14 pm


Yes I hope so Lynx - although I may have to book another appointment for a scan, I'll let you know how tomorrow goes.

Thanks for the well wishes.

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Fred_and_co

Post   » Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:39 pm


My mum took Patrick to the local vet today as planned he was given an injection of Buprenorphine, Septrin and Rimadyl I've to give a 16th of a tablet that will be interesting, couldn't get a scan done.

This Saturday I plan on making him an appointment for the my usual vet - just wish they weren't so far away going to hopefully get him Xrayed.

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