Noddy's sick. Aerococcus. Please help

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Hilary Holmes

Post   » Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:21 pm


Thanks Lynx, I'll give it a try and see how he likes it, now I'm certain it will do no harm.

BamBam, as ever, a good thought. Do you think they are those large orange ones people hollow out for Hallowe'en? I wonder if it can be bought in the supermarket? US posters, any advice would be very gratefully received.

C Cole-Chakotay

Post   » Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:42 pm


In the US pumpkin is sold in the can for use in baking, especially pumpkin pie. I've heard the pigs like it and I think I'll try my girls on it sometime.

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:22 am


"Do you think they are those large orange ones people hollow out for Hallowe'en?"

No, at least I don't think so. Canned pumpkin in the US I THINK (and I do not work in the canned food industry!!) is made from smaller, "pie" pumpkins.

I will say if you want to try *fresh* pumpkin, our pigs have vastly preferred chunks of the great big ones (not available except around Hallowe'en) to chunks of the littler ones.

You are looking for this:

Image

NOT the pie filling. Pumpkin *only* in the can, no spices, etc.

Hilary Holmes

Post   » Sat Dec 31, 2011 4:20 am


So Noddy continues his slow decline, but up until this morning had seemed fairly bright and energetic. He loves running up and down my kitchen, being chased by MaggieMae.
I though he might be in pain yesterday. Nothing major, but a bit of teeth chattering and hair on the back of his neck fluffed up. He had a dose of 0.6 ml Metacam (0.5mg/ ml) and that seemed to settle things down. He weighs 1100g now, so I think that is an appropriate dose.
Last night he was fine,sat on my knee quite happily and took some extra fluids and CC. Also produced a pile of normal looking poops!
This morning I came down to find him sitting in a pile of poop (not that unusual), but he refused to eat any of it, including a caecotrope (very unusual). He has since produced some more, much smaller, and very dark, poops. He has refused all his very favourite foods, and as far as I can tell, isn't even eating hay. He just sits in the corner, hanging his head.
I've managed to get about 12ml CC into him this morning, as well as some water with Vit C in, but I just don't know what else to do. I can't give him any more Metacam until tonight, and have to go to work shortly. I'm hoping a friend might ride to the rescue, but if not, I'll just have to try and get more CC into him before I go and hope for the best.
Is there anything else I could try? Any advice gratefully received.

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BamBam

Post   » Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:19 am


*Waves*

We are tucking into some more CC now and that done I will pop out and find some fresh grass to try and tempt him.

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poppypiggy

Post   » Sat Dec 31, 2011 1:30 pm


I've been following this thread with interst, but not posted as I have not had anything helpfull to add. However, when Noddy now seems to be in pain, I wonder if you have seen the discussions about higher doses of Metacam, and if that could be beneficial for him at this point.

TwoWhitePiggies' vet said piggies can have as much as 1 - 2 mg Metacam pr kg. You can read about that in the thread about maximum doses here.

https://www.guinealynx.info/records/viewtopic.php?t=142

Feel better soon, Noddy!

Hilary Holmes

Post   » Sat Dec 31, 2011 4:09 pm


Thanks BamBam, as ever, for your sterling efforts with Noddy whilst I was at work.
poppypiggy, thank you for keeping an eye on what's been happening with Noddy. It's good to know people are watching what's happening, even if they don't post anything. Thank you for the info about metacam doses, I will discuss it with the vet as soon as they open next week. (Trying to be positive and assume there will be something to discuss!) Noddy has renal failure, we know, whihc would be a reason to keep the dose low, but it also needs to keep his pain under control. I think we're looking at quality, rather than quantity of life now.
Still, we'll plod on, and even though I wasn't planning on staying up to see in the New Year, I'm sure I'll see it in when I'm up syringe feeding!

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Sun Jan 01, 2012 11:41 pm


"Noddy has renal failure, we know, whihc would be a reason to keep the dose low, but it also needs to keep his pain under control. I think we're looking at quality, rather than quantity of life now."

If you are absolutely positively unconditionally sure that Noddy does in fact have renal failure, if it were my pig I'd up the dose by quite a bit and let him be comfortable, even if it shortens his time.

The vet as well as many GL members may (vehemently) disagree, and that's fine. This is my opinion only. Take all into account when deciding what's best for Noddy.

Hilary Holmes

Post   » Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:23 am


Talishan, thank you for that. Noddy has never had a blood test to confirm his renal failure, as there is no-one even vaguely local who is able to take blood. However, every recent urinalysis has shown an increasing amount of protein. There has never been any blood, frank, or occult, suggestive of infection, although there has occasionally been a few leucocytes. The protein, along with a low specific gravity, and increasing amount of urine, has led us to conclude his kidneys are failing. So, I guess I'm as certain as I can be, that is the case. He also has shown a signifcant amount of urobilinogen in his urine, so we suspect a degree of liver failure, too. Would you agree?

I don't think he's in agony, just uncomfortable. He's very quiet, doesn't run around much at all, and is quite "fluffed up" at times. But I just can't be certain, knowing how they hide things.

That said, I agree absolutely with you, that I would much rather he had a little extra pain relief, and was comfortable, than to spend his last few days or weeks in pain. I've ben giving 0.6ml Metacam (0.5mg/ml). Would you give more? I've also got a very limited supply of Rimadyl, and some prednisolone.

Hilary Holmes

Post   » Mon Jan 02, 2012 1:34 pm


Further to my recent post, Noddy has just done a BIG wee, so I havebeen able to test it fresh. It showed
pH 8.5
SG 1.005
Gluc -ve
Ket -ve
Bil++
Leu trace
Nit trace
Prot ++++
Urob 8mg/dL

I think that kind of confirms my concerns about his liver and kidneys, doesn't it?

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BamBam

Post   » Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:42 pm


I understand the PH, protein and Urob but what does the rest mean Hilary? Presumably no diabetes issues (glucose/ketone -ve)...

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:30 am


"I've ben giving 0.6ml Metacam (0.5mg/ml). Would you give more? I've also got a very limited supply of Rimadyl, and some prednisolone."

Yes. 0.6 mL of a 0.5 mg/mL suspension = 0.3 mg of active ingredient. That is very, very little.

I have gone up to 0.3 mL of a 1.5 mg/mL suspension *twice* a day (not for very long) on occasion; that is, 0.45 mg of active ingredient twice a day = 0.9 mg daily. This was for a pig of a little over a kilo. I didn't do this for more than 2 to 2 1/2 days at a time. Kansas State University has gone up to over 1 mL of the 1.5 mg/mL suspension long-term with no apparent ill effect. Others will vehemently say that is way too much.

The above is simply my experience. It helped the pig greatly to no *apparent* ill effect. I say apparent because while the pig showed no sign of a negative effect, we never took blood on him either.

You can SUBSTITUTE Rimadyl for Metacam; do NOT give them concurrently. If it were me I'd hang on to the pred for later use if necessary. Do NOT give pred concurrently with EITHER NSAID.

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