Soft Stool/Squeaking and Straining While Pooing

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:31 pm


I don't know enough about the differences between a gram stain and fecal culture -- you mainly want to find out what bacteria is in the gut and if that is causing the soft poops. The pain on pooping can be related as the intestines may be just as sensitive as ours are. I did not recall if it was the gram positive or negative bacteria which you wanted to minimize (there are always some of each).

It will be trial and error for you to determine what helps. If it is a bacterial problem, identifying the bacteria will tell you if Flagyl was the way to go.

I don't think a fungal nose infection will affect the poops.

Edit: and regarding the stain/culture, it seems a gram stain is one of the tests that can be done on a fecal culture:
http://labtestsonline.org/understanding ... n/tab/test

The gram stain may include fungi (in the form of yeasts or molds) in a fecal culture according to that article.

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Ech90
Supporter in '13

Post   » Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:49 pm


Bcup's stools actually seem to have improved a bit. While still soft and irregular shaped (tear drop shape), they are at least more normal sized and not as long and large as before.

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If she is still squealing, straining, having gassiness, and soft stools by next Monday though, when I bring in Piggy I will also bring in a sample of Buttercup's stools and ask them to run a fecal culture on it.

I tried giving her some poop soup tonight. I made sure that I got a really fresh stool to make it with - I scooped it up right as it was coming out of Piggy's butt! Buttercup REALLY did not want to eat it though, and would not open her mouth for the syringe. Next time, is it okay if I smush Piggy's poop between two pieces of lettuce and get Buttercup to eat it that way?

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Topaz

Post   » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:25 am


I'm going through the same thing right now and know how frustrating it can be.

My girl has had a fecal float(negative) as well as a culture(negative). She's been on flagyl, bactrim, a no veggie diet, vitamin c, probiotics...you name it. Still no improvement. Sometimes they will look "better", not normal by any means but better, only to return to mush again.

Yesterday I just threw my hands up in the air and decided that I am going to give her veggies anyway. Why make the poor girl miserable when the mushy poos are not going away when I omit the veggies, what's the difference?? I might as well let her enjoy.

That being said, she's eating well, drinking well, is maintaining her weight, and is otherwise the picture of health.

So puzzling. I sure hope you can get to the bottom of this and that something works for you!

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Ech90
Supporter in '13

Post   » Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:48 pm


That's exactly how I felt about the vegetables! It was so sad, because anytime someone walks, Buttercup is usually the first one to start wheeking (loudly!) and start running around and putting her paws up to try to get some veggies. After not having any for so long, even though she was still very active in other areas of her life, it was like she had given up all hope on the vegetables, not even bothering to get up or look around even when there were rustling noises from the refrigerator. Omitting the veggies clearly made no difference for her mushy poos, so I have started giving them back to her. She was back to her old buttinsky self in no time!

Also, similar to your piggy, besides Buttercup's GI issues she too is the picture of health. Even the vets wrote in their report that she is "bright and alert" and "has a lot of personality!" (Haha, I like to call it bright eyed and bushy tailed, even though they don't have any tails). I am really hoping to be able to get to the bottom of this, but have also started to accept that maybe it is a chronic condition. Either way I love her so much, stinky, mushy, poops and all!

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Ech90
Supporter in '13

Post   » Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:04 pm


2-22 Mushy, soft stools again – long. Weight: 668 g

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2-23 Long, soft stools with squeaking/arching. No pellets. Weight: 669 g

2-24 Long, soft stools with squeaking/arching. No pellets during the day but given back that evening due to concern over weight loss. Weight: 624 g.

2-25 Stools have improved! Observed her going to the bathroom with no squeaking/straining; stool slid right out and was completely normal looking.

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2-26 Observed Buttercup squeaking, straining, and passing a long, wet, stool once again. Based on this pattern, attribute the brief improvement in stools to the time without pellets and the relapse to the reintroduction of pellets. Take away pellets again that night. Based on the belief that the pellets are the problem (and not a bacterial cause), stop giving the Flagyl four days early to avoid any possible further imbalance unnecessarily caused by the antibiotic (stupid, I know). Start to give 50 mg of liquid children’s vitamin C supplement daily.

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2-27 Beautiful, normal sized, normal shaped stools. Still soft enough that if they are stepped on they will get squished between the toes, but they are *so* well formed. No pellets. Weight down to 628 g

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2-28 Stools are 50/50. Some are passed effortlessly, with no squeaking or straining and yet others seem to require more effort. Stools are more misshapen than the day before, but still pretty small. No pellets. Weight down to 623 g.

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2-29 Long, soft stools with squeaking/arching. Email vet and he is starting her on a full course of antibiotics (Flagyl) again. Since there started to be improvement after 2 weeks, this time he is putting her on it for a month. Unsure – was the period of improvement due to the Flagyl starting to kick in or the removal of pellets, as I had though? Still no pellets, and her weight is down to 622 g.

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3-01 Long, soft stools with squeaking/arching. Weight down to 604 g and Buttercup is looking very emaciated and bony. Am very concerned about her weight potentially dipping below 600 g, so I add the Oxbow pellets back into the cage that night. Oxbow Daily C vitamin C tablets have arrive in the mail and I begin giving it to them that night as well.

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3-02 KMS pellets have arrived! Was considering administering critical care or critter-be-better to Buttercup, but after just one night of having the Oxbow pellets back her weight has increased to 612 g. I feel hopeful that her weight will continue to increase with the KMS pellets. Stools are looking very nice – perfectly normal, in fact. But by this time I have realized that one day of normal looking poos means absolutely nothing.

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3-03 Piggy and Buttercup absolutely love the new KMS pellets! Buttercup’s weight is slowly increasing and is now up to 628 g. Unfortunately, her stools have returned to being long and mushy.

3-04 Good news: Bcup’s weight is up to 648 g. Bad news: stools are absolutely awful looking - extremely long, soft, and misshapen. Strangely, Buttercup has started to fight back against taking the Flagyl although she *loved* taking it before (when the oral syringe was near her face she would grab it into her mouth and not want to let it go, even when all the medication had already been pushed out). Begin her on Bene-bac 2x a day a few hours apart from the Flagyl dosage. She does not mind taking the Bene-bac at all and gobbles it up.

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3-05 Still fighting the Flagyl, wildly bucking her head and making it very hard to administer the medication to her. Takes the Bene-bac willingly. Poos are the same but her weight is up to 658 g.

3-06 Feeling very frustrated. Has now “turned” on the Bene-bac as well and refuses to take it that morning. During the day I go to the drugstore and buy a bottle of Kyodophilus and give it to her the first time that night (one capsule split open and the powder sprinkled over a piece of romaine lettuce). Thankfully she eats it with no resistance. By now I have figured out to work the oral syringe into the back of her mouth so that very little Flagyl dribbles out, but it was not a pretty sight getting there. That evening, she also refuses to take her oxbow daily C tablet. Unlike the Flagyl which I can force into her mouth with the syringe, there is no way to force her to take the vitamin c tablet. I hate feeling like I have to roughhouse her to give her the medication, especially when it doesn’t even seem to be helping. Stools are disgusting looking, extremely wet and mushy. Some do not even seem to have any shape at all. Weight: 647 g

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3-07 Could the kyodophilus be working? The stools are looking SO much better today (normal sized, normal shaped, not even that mushy!). Weight: 635 g

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3-08 Poos have gone back to mush, basically we are back at square one. Weight: 651 g

3-09 Stools are still nasty. Woke up in the morning and found a massive clump of mushy poo that had gotten stepped on and mixed in with hay. It was the size of a post-it note. Weight: 653

3-10 Stools are the same. Weight: 653 g

3-11 Stools are the same. Weight: 662 g

3-12 Stools are the same. Have not weighed her yet today. I feel like I am living in an endless nightmare of foul smelling and mushy poops, poop smeared fleece, multiple daily poop shoe baths due to poop shoes that are back 5 minutes after there has been a poop shoe bath. Should I try taking out the KMS pellets? Am just so scared of her weight dropping again. This has been an ongoing problem now for 4.5 months, ever since I got her, and I finally feel like I am reaching the end of my rope. I don’t know what to do and at times feel like doing nothing because nothing seems to work.

User avatar
Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:32 pm


You have done such a great job of chronicling (sp) this (I wish you were getting her all sorted out!). You might also add an overview of diet and/or any changes from day to day (different vegs, etc.) as you continue with your daily info - I'm just trying to see if there is a pattern or if a particular veg might be contributing to these issues.

Would you like me to add all your photos to your thread permanently? I think this might be a very helpful thread in the future.

Bookfan
For the Love of Pigs

Post   » Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:38 am


Good idea Lynx. If we could get some good, systematic documentation of things tried & outcome, maybe a pattern will emerge. Vets, even the good ones, just don't seem to have a handle on this problem.

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angiemthomas

Post   » Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:30 am


-- Do you notice any pattern when Bcup is on or off any kind of pellets?
--I dont suppose it could be some sort of a food allergy? Such as to soy, which is in both KMs and Oxbow.

-- What about the water source and water bottle? Could there be some mold or gunk inside her water bottle?

Could something in your tap water source be upsetting her tummy? No one has really mentioned the water on this thread... Maybe try switching to a bottled water, just to see.

== I know she was on Flagyl with no improvement, right? What about trying Reglan?

== I would try something that is super full of fiber. Like give her an entire raw piece of corn, especially the husks.

Almost seems like human Crohn's or irritable bowel syndrome!

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:16 am


I would avoid fresh raw corn but the husks would be great.

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Topaz

Post   » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:23 am


Oh Ech, I'm right there with you. Zoey has gone back to mushy toothpaste like poos for the past three days now, for no apparent reason and with no changes in ANYthing. If it is any consolation, you are not alone.

Wonderful record keeping on your part. This is so helpful and I find myself going back to previous medical threads/posts of mine when wanting to look for a pattern or answers. Or when I am just wondering.

I'm so sorry this is happening. It sounds like you are trying everything. We could be writing duplicate posts here. :(

Angie, I had the water and/or water bottle thought as well and have been scrubbing out the water bottle daily. Also, my girls all get filtered water so I've pretty much ruled that out.

Thinking of you guys, Ech, and hoping you see some improvement.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:26 am


Maybe both of you can keep a diary of sorts with all the variables by day. I know these mushy poops are discouraging.

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Ech90
Supporter in '13

Post   » Sun Mar 18, 2012 4:44 pm


Sorry that I haven't been posting or keeping records these past couple of days. I have been feeling very depressed and morose about Buttercup's situation. There has been absolutely no improvement and her stools have pretty much just been consistently bad.

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I have been giving her the kyodophilus 2-3 hours after each dose of Flagyl daily. Also, she has been getting only 1 leaf of romaine lettuce and about 1/2 cup of green and red leaf lettuce daily for the past several weeks. After she is done with this last course of Flagyl in about a week and a half (next Wednesday, the 28th), I am going to take her back to the vet and have a fecal culture done. Still, I am not holding my breath that the culture will provide some sort of miraculous insight, as Topaz said that it did not come up with anything for her Zoey (Buttercup and Zoey have very similar issues).

I have been wary about adding anything new to her diet, but at this point I doubt that the corn husks can do much to hurt. I will let you know how the corn husks go and start to keep records once more.

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