Timothy - weight loss

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:12 am


I think my vet found some on VIN.

We tried milk thistle on one of ours, to no avail but that doesn't mean it wouldn't help your pig. If your vet can look on VIN I think there are SAM-e dosages on there at the very least. I think. I don't still have the dosages, otherwise would post them.

Alibabble

Post   » Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:21 pm


Thank you. I missed the vet last night but I left a message asking about milk thistle and SAM-e. Hopefully he gets it and has some info for me. Timothy is feeling a bit better today, he's tossing his head around when I'm giving him the CC and he screamed like I was killing him when he got his SQ.

Alibabble

Post   » Fri May 04, 2012 11:36 am


So, long recap and questions. I'm sorry, I'm rambling in my head and trying to talk things through.

With regular CC (syringe first few days then switching to eating a slurry with a bit of baby food), SQ fluids, B vitamins and SAM-e Timothy stabilized for a bit. His weight went up to 975g, it had dipped down to 900 at his worst. Healthy, happy, young Timothy was 1.1kg but had steadily lost with first his cystotomy then heart disease. We never quite managed to put all the weight back on but he had been at an okay weight, a bit thin but doable.

On the third I noticed that he'd begun to lose weight, dropping to 950g overnight. I began pushing more critical care and booked the soonest vet appointment I could get (today the 4th).

Yesterday he was depressed and refused his veggies. I began syringe feeding and found, as the night progressed that he was having difficulties swallowing. He was drooling and occasionally gagging. By 4 am he appeared painful in that he was grinding his molars, sitting hunched up and occasionally rocking back and forth. The drooling was worse and he was spitting up fluid, I'd stopped even trying to get CC in him a few hours before. Neither vet in town called me back despite repeated calls on my part.

At 4 I cracked and did a bad thing. He was painful and I couldn't get a vet and I panicked a little bit. I gave him some buprenorphine that I had laying around even though I know it's not indicated for use in those with liver disease, I don't think it's okay with the heart disease either. At that point in time I didn't feel that we had much to lose and I was hoping to give him a bit of comfort while waiting for the vet to call. Within half and hour he was, dare I say it, perky. He got grumpy with me cuddling him then went into his cage and began eating some hay. I provided veggies and CC on a dish and he devoured both. This morning he's had a bit of veggies, more CC and eaten a bunch of hay. He LOUDLY wheeked when I opened the fridge for coffee cream.

We have an appointment today that I had assumed would be euthanasia. Now I'm not so sure. Obviously the buprenorphine isn't something that we can continue but I'm wondering what is going on? I read that in humans it's used to treat conditions in which a patient has difficulty swallowing so I'm thinking that's where it's being helpful more than anything.

The more I've been feeling his neck the more it feels like it might be a bit edematous, it's definitely not a standard fatty pig dewlap feel and it's not the same as the just skin feeling of an emaciated pig. His abdomen feels okay but I'm not exactly a rockstar in that department. He's pale but his CRT is less than 2 seconds. I heard some hooting this morning when we were hanging out but he was happily eating some cucumber in between. Could this be a worsening of his heart disease accounting for some of the signs? The pale mm, hooting and lethargy all make me think heart but, honestly, at this point it could be pretty much anything going on him. Teeth are another obvious one.

Now, I'm a bit stuck as to what to do. Obviously, there's a lot going on with him and I don't want to prolong his life out of a selfish desire to hold onto him. On the other hand, if this is something manageable then I would hate to not give it a try. I'm leaning towards doing another x-ray to see if there's something that points to heart that we might be able to try treating more aggressively. If it's something like a pain issue associated with another bladder stone then we'll euthanize, I think it would be kinder than having any vet here perform surgery on him.

Does this seem reasonable? Rads to see if it's something obvious with his heart, or something else obvious like a bladder stone. If nothing is clealy obvious in the rads then I'd proceed to anesthetizing him with iso then have the vet thoroughly examine his teeth, if that's not the problem then we'd euthanize. It feels so cold blooded to lay it out like this but I think it's my best plan. Please tell me someone has a better one?

User avatar
Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Fri May 04, 2012 8:29 pm


I think it was a good idea to address the pain issue. I just don't know enough to guess at what is going on. You know all the possibilities. I just hope that if whatever is wrong can be managed or cured, you have success. Quality of life is so important and most people take that into account too.

Sorry I can't be of more help.

Alibabble

Post   » Sat May 05, 2012 2:29 am


Darn it, I wanted someone to boss me around :)

Turns out today's appointment was just going to be tech drop off for euthanasia (not what I had thought) but I have an appointment booked with the vet for tomorrow morning. Today Timothy has been excellent. Bright, alert, wheeking for veggies, eating hay and being a total drama pig about his SQ fluids. He's been gassy so I've been pushing simethicone in addiction to his oral B vitamins, extra vitamin C, SAM-e, and enalapril. He hasn't seemed painful and his weight has gone steadily up today, there have been no problems swallowing.

Tomorrow, I want xrays and a teeth check. The more I think about it the more his recent issues feel heart related to me. There is definitely a bit of a clicking noise when he breathes, the gassiness and the hooting all scream heart. Either way I am very, very thankful to have had today with him and I hope to get some more of those days.

Side note: All the receptionists recognize me now and we had several people come out from the back to meet Timothy. Apparently, being the crazy lady calling with a million questions and order Critical Care gets recognition. Go team Timothy!

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sat May 05, 2012 8:22 am


For what it's worth, I think every knowledgeable person who takes their guinea pig to a vet helps a little bit with their knowledge of guinea pigs, especially for vets who don't see them frequently.

Tracis
Let Sleeping Pigs Lie

Post   » Sat May 05, 2012 1:36 pm


We are hoping for the best for Timothy.

Alibabble

Post   » Sat May 05, 2012 3:58 pm


So, it was kind of a mixed visit. The vet did some research on VIN and agreed that the liver issues could actually be secondary to other things since it was the ALT that was elevated. He checked Timothy's teeth for me but we didn't use an anesthetic since it was the weekend and he was short staffed. There has been no return of the choking movements or drooling but we'll be doing a complete mouth exam with anesthesia on Monday just in case. We'll also do xrays then.

The vet probably thinks I'm crazy at this point in time since I keep going on about heart pigs but he's humoring me for the time being. He scripted out Vetmedin for me because he doesn't see how it could hurt and I was pretty damn insistent about it potentially helping.

Current plan is to have him on:
Enalapril 0.25 mg SID
Vetmedin 1/4 of a 1.25mg capsule SID
Meloxicam 0.1mg SID
Simethicone prn (usually 1/2 of low end of baby dose BID these days)
B complex and extra Vitamin C daily
20 mL SQ saline BID
Critical Care feedings as needed
This is all for a pig who is bouncing around a low near 900g and a normal of just over 1kg.

Any thoughts? I feel like we're maybe moving in the right direction. Timothy was so bright and active today, he was giving me kisses through most of the exam and enjoyed hanging out with the receptionists who thought he was adorable.

User avatar
Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sat May 05, 2012 8:14 pm


Glad to hear he was in good spirits today. Hoping your plan helps!

Alibabble

Post   » Tue May 08, 2012 10:58 am


TIMOTHY MAINTAINED HIS BODY WEIGHT OVERNIGHT!!!! Okay, so maybe it's not as exciting for other people as me but I got to go an entire *seven* hours between CC offers. This morning he was still well hydrated so I skipped the morning SQ fluids to see how he does with that. It would be nice if I could get down to only poking him once a day. He was also busy wheeking and chewing on the bars of his cage to demand morning veggies.

Nothing specific or interesting about his teeth or rads. I do feel that the dramatic response to changing the enalapril dosing and adding on vetmedin should count as a mark towards heart. I've got 3 more capsules of vetmedin but after that I'll talk to the compounding pharmacy about making a suspension. I'm going to keep pushing the CC in an effort to get his body weight back up, he's still painfully thin.

Seriously though, maintaining his weight and wheeking and bar chewing and pepper snatch and runs. This is way better than Christmas.

User avatar
Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Tue May 08, 2012 10:49 pm


Good news! Crossing fingers here!

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Sun May 13, 2012 1:37 am


"Okay, so maybe it's not as exciting for other people as me but I got to go an entire *seven* hours between CC offers."

Ohhhhhhh yes it's exciting. I understand that *completely*.

"I do feel that the dramatic response to changing the enalapril dosing and adding on vetmedin should count as a mark towards heart."

"Mark" isn't the right word. You need a much stronger word. ;-) This is it. In my limited experience, especially if they need Vetmedin and you add it in the difference is dramatic.

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