Hay Poke, probably not a serious problem but still...

Jazzbox

Post   » Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:51 pm


There is one question which I have about the ciprofloxacin. Does it actually speed recovery? I was under the impression that it was simply to prevent infection.

Josephine
Little Jo Wheek

Post   » Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:44 am


No, it does not speed recovery, but it is imperative to protect the eye.

User avatar
CharmeC

Post   » Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:15 am


Going Merry is about 5 years old by now (My roommate calculated her age wrong in the opening post), she has always been timid but is also very gentle and sweet. Around 3am tonight I picked her up to clipped her nails. I was letting her lay vertically against my tummy while I clipped the nails on her hind legs with her head thrown backward. When I moved on to her front paws she was struggling so hard I let her down on all four in my lap, that's when she started making a choking sound. She appeared to have trouble breathing and seemed to be in agony.

And then her body became totally limp and seemed to have wet herself. I laid her down and, not knowing what else to do, tried massaging her ribs in case her heart was stopping. Still laying on her side and entirely limp, she exhibited what I believe is called agonal breathing, with occasional choking. It was terrible not being able to help her with no vet available at this hour.

I would have liked to hold her in case she was passing away, but I felt that she would feel less stressed with minimal human contact. After she was moved into the bathtub where it's darker and cooler, she gradually recovered herself and was able to right herself and stand on all four! She perched there all puffed up for a while, just now she started eating some lettuce. I am so thankful she didn't die when she was going through the agonal breathing!

I am taking her to the vet in the morning but I am worried that the stress of the trip might trigger another attack.

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:35 am


I have no idea of the physiology involved but several of our pigs have shown discomfort when being held upright for any length of time, especially if they are older and especially if they are heavier.

When we do nails I always put them back to a horizontal position for a bit, either between feet or between front/back feet.

It almost seems as if something presses on their lungs, or they can't breathe easily? I have NO idea why, but several of ours have been like that.

I've fussed with several vet techs about it as well. With an older animal or a heavier animal in particular, whatever they're doing if I am in the room with them and they're holding the pig upright I will flat-out *tell* them to give the pig a break and hold him horizontally for just a bit -- ten or fifteen seconds does the job.

Honestly I doubt the vet trip will stress her. **Leave her on all fours and tell the vet to do the same, though!!**

User avatar
Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:50 am


That sounds very unusual. I wonder how common this is.

User avatar
CharmeC

Post   » Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:15 pm


Just got back from the vet, the doctor was amazed that Going Merry survived the syncope and collapse episode, usually when that happened the pig wouldn't make it, she had no idea what brought her back to us! The doctor said it is possible that the way I held Going Merry when I was clipping her nails could have compressed her chest and stopping the air flow, although she holds her pigs the same way when she's clipping their nails. Possibility of a heart problem is also not ruled out, but that there's nothing much to do if she does have a heart problem. Finally we are to monitor her closely for the next couple of days for signs of URI in case there's an infection in her lungs that made it difficult for her to breathe and this triggering the episode. She seems her usual self now and is eating normally.

User avatar
CharmeC

Post   » Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:27 pm


We have noticed a tiny wheezing sound in Going Merry's breathing sometimes starting from the past couple of weeks. She had seemed normal otherwise until tonight. She didn't join the others for their evening veggies, Her fur looks puffed up and she hides in the corner by herself, her body feels a little limp when I pick her up. She's obviously very sick and I can't take her to the vet until morning, why do animals tend to get sick in the evening? So worried T_T

Jazzbox

Post   » Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:32 pm


Going Merry's Saturday visit to the vet.

(Continuing the story after the total-collapse episode of last month as described in CharmeC's previous posts.)

(Note please that in spite of any prior confusion, careful research shows that Going Merry is 4 years old, plus or minus a month or two.)

After her first total-collapse episode a month ago, I had noticed that Going Merry seemed to have lost interest in fresh vegetables, and pretty much confines herself to eating hay. Her weight has been fluctuating but showing a downward trend.

We also noticed that, if we were were handling her, then, when we put her down, she would make an odd sound, that was sort of a choking/coughing sound. I have also heard her make a sighing/wheezing sound (which was certainly not a vocalization.)

Several days ago, I had noticed a very faint wheezing but it was so faint that we had to have our ear touching her fur in order to hear it. She does not make this wheezing sound all the time.

On this past Friday evening, Charme thought that Going Merry had deteriorated, and so decided to take her to the vet. She thought that the problem was a respiratory infection but I was pretty sure it was her heart. She called the vet on Saturday morning at 9.30AM and we got an appointment at 10.30AM.

Once at the vets', a simple physical exam did not reveal anything, so we agreed that x-rays would be necessary.

We had to wait a bit because the x-ray was being used for a bird who, unsurprisingly, refused to remain calm and stay still. Soon however it was Going Merry's turn, and we waited for the results. After yet another while, the vet came out and said that while attempting to position her for the x-ray, she had some difficulty breathing, and it was necessary to give her oxygen, let her calm down, and then try again.

Naturally, we were alarmed.

Eventually the vet came back with Going Merry, and she looked like a damp dishrag. She was in such bad shape that I would not have been surprised if she died right then and there. I assume that she had another total-collapse episode quite similar to the one which nearly killed her last month, and the only thing that gave me any hope that she might survive was that she survived the previous episode - from which she recovered in about an hour, with no *apparent* ill effects. (I emphasize "apparent" because, for example, if any heart tissue died or if there were any scar tissue that formed as a result of that previous episode, we would not and could not know about it.)

(I am wondering if the this episode and the previous total-collapse episode might properly be classed as heart attacks.)

The vet said that the x-rays were not great because Going Merry would not assume the optimal position for x-raying. Nonetheless they revealed lots of fluid in the thoracic cavity, causing breathing difficulties, and lesions in her lungs, probably either primary or metastatic cancer.

The vet also told us that Going Merry was probably in quite a bit of pain, due to the labored breathing, and said that we might want to consider euthanizing her that day. Even though anyone seeing Going Merry at that instant would have thought the vet's suggestion to be reasonable and humane, we immediately replied that we had no intention of doing that and what other options were available? She said that we could try Lasix which *might* *possibly* help drain some of the fluid in her thoracic cavity and ease her breathing difficulties, but not without the possibility of serious side effects. The other option was to do nothing and let nature take its course. We all know what this euphemism means, right? When I asked about aspirating the thorax to remove at least some of the fluid, she told me that Going Merry's general condition made this an extremely risky procedure.

We opted for the Lasix. As per the vet's advice, we have sequestered Going Merry in a small-ish enclosure, 20 x 24 inches, so that her food and water is always nearby and so that no one harasses her - as she was at the very bottom of the pecking order, this was an important consideration, and will remove much stress. I kinda feel bad about sequestering her like this, but on the other hand, she has always been a very sedentary girlie, and not very sociable at all. In the last few days she seems to have been trying to hide from the other pigs, and so maybe she will prefer the current arrangements.

(Oddity: having got her home from the vets' and put her with the rest of the pigs, three of the four immediately came over and started barbering her. We have only ever observed one of pigs barbering any of the others and only a very very few times when being introduced into the herd, so this barbering frenzy was quite remarkable. I wonder if Going Merry had picked up some strange scents at the vets' office. Naturally, we immediately took appropriate measures as Going Merry surely did not need that particular stressor.)

If she is in pain because of breathing difficulties due to fluid accumulation, then at the point of seriously considering having her euthanized, we could, instead, opt for the aspiration. Then, in the worst case, if the aspiration is unsuccessful and she dies, it will be equivalent to putting her to sleep, but in the best case it will improve and extend her life. Because of the need for anesthesia, the risk of an aspiration is too great for it to be anything other than a last resort.

The lesions in the lungs, whether primary or metastatic, are a different matter entirely. The vet seemed to think that they are not sufficiently advanced to be causing pain. But if there is an advanced primary cancer elsewhere, then she could be in pain from that. She has been losing weight lately and it possible that her loss of appetite is due to pain, but the vet thinks that the pain she might be experiencing is from breathing difficulties.

But we are not 100% sure that she is in pain. Although I can understand why the vet would have thought she was, seeing Going Merry in the throes of what appears to have been another collapse episode - and as I said, when the vet brought her back to use, she looked awful and at death's door - now, having had time to recuperate, she seems to be in pretty good shape and not terminally ill and not obviously in pain, even though she is clearly not in great health. We have *no* reason whatsoever to think that she is in pain so great that euthanasia is appropriate. We could be wrong...

Although not back to where she was before the first total-collapse near-death episode, she seems as though she might have significant time left her. As before, she still has no interest in anything other than hay: she has refused blueberries, uncooked oatmeal, romaine, green pepper, tomato - not a really good sign. However, just a li'l while ago, I gave pellets to the rest of the herd, and Going Merry, in her sequestration box, heard me opening the can of pellets, recognized the sound, and immediately started wheeking - so that's very good indeed! And we bought some Critical Care for her today. Needless to say, she has not interest in it - even mixed with mashed blueberries.

Time will tell...

User avatar
Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:39 pm


The Critical Care should definitely help. If she is not eating much besides hay, she may not be getting enough nutrients, esp. vitamin C.

You might want to read over www.guinealynx.info/.html and www.guinealynx.info/.html

User avatar
Bytxlaura
Remembering Nemo

Post   » Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:25 pm


Keeping Going Merry in my thoughts!

Jazzbox

Post   » Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:43 pm


We are looking at https://www.guinealynx.info/cardiovascular_agents.html and beyond for information on possible side effects of Lasix; we were told that kidney problems are a threat but we are still researching we have not yet found much useful information, or any possible ways to avoid these side effects.

Also, I neglected to mention that we were also given a ten-day course of Baytril for Going Merry on the off-chance that the fluid is due to an infection of some sort. We do not know if a 10-course of Baytril will require it but we are considering giving her pro-biotics to make up for the gut flora that the Baytril might kill off. I would prefer not to give her pro-biotics because her appetite is so poor that it might be better if anything she does eat is more nutrient-laden, but then again she will need to efficiently digest whatever she eats.

Jazzbox

Post   » Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:44 pm


Thank you Laura! We all appreciate it!

Post Reply