Pantufinha's Medical Thread

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GP_mum
Supporter in '13

Post   » Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:21 pm


So glad to know that the surgery went well and she's back home.

bpatters
And got the T-shirt

Post   » Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:37 pm


I'm so glad she came through the surgery o.k. I hope the recovery is uneventful and that she's soon up and about again.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:22 pm


So happy she's home! I hope you can work out something that helps with the teeth.

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MildredM
The-Fairy-in-my-Heart

Post   » Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:16 am


Oh well done, Pantu :)) what a brave pigg - and piggy mum! A huge relief all round.

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TexCavy

Post   » Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:33 am


What a good girl. Glad she got through this one well and hope she can keep the teeth ground down for a long time before another visit.

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LS in AK
Upside-down & Backwards

Post   » Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:34 am


Yes, glad to hear the surgery went well for her. Hopefully problems all solved now?

pinta

Post   » Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:57 am


Did your vet send out any samples to the lab to ID the bacteria? I had Buddy on Duplocillin for 10 days when his incisor was loose a few months ago but the recent pathology from the lab showed Duplocillin was not effective against ecoli. This is probably why his infection progressed over a few months to a huge abscess.

Conway was on Duplocillin(never oral, always via injection) for 6 weeks and it worked for him. His jaw healed but he eventually succumbed to heart disease.

It's important to treat the cause of the malocclusion(infection/jaw weakness) or you'll be back to filing teeth within a month. Unfortunately when a pig is being careful to avoid pain while chewing over a period of time the jaw muscles can become slack from under use. Check to see if her mouth is hanging open while at rest and check to see how fast she can eat hay or grass. Slow disappearance of food means she isn't chewing with enough pressure to quickly masticate the food. She will have difficulty putting weight back on if she can't properly "vaccuum" her food.

They tend to eat well immediayte after surgery because the sedation is still lingering in their system. My experience is they stop eating a day or 2 after, due to sensitivity from the surgery and all sedation wearing off. I haven't found that pain meds have made a huge difference. Buddy took 6 days before he could eat on his own and we're still handfeeding to augment.

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Regiane
Cavy Slave Since '08

Post   » Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:54 am


Pinta, thank you so much for all your help and info! My vet did not send the tooth to the lab, now I wish she had done it. I sent a message for her

For now, Pantufinha is active and eating critical care in a plate. I syringe fed her too to help her. She's on metacam and tramadol for pain control.

As she just have 2 incisors now (fortunately 1 upper and 1 lower), I think it will take a time for her to try to eat some things, but I'll keep trying.

Thank you all for the messages. ♥

C Cole-Chakotay

Post   » Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:52 am


I'm glad she eats her critical care from a plate. That's so cute. I had to put Tulip's on a spoon and kind of hook it with her incisors. She got to where she seemed to enjoy eating it.

I'm so glad your girl is doing well. How long should it take for her teeth to grow back?

pinta

Post   » Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:31 am


It's not the tooth that gets sent to the lab but tissue(pulp) from the cavity, bone fragments, and pus(unless all that is hanging onto the tooth).

Buddy's pathology was pus and bone fragments(bone was crumbling from the infection). The actual term from the pathologist was "osteolytic gingival lesions" and "mandibular mass". And he mentioned alveolar bone. He received multiple sections.

Anyway, if your vet contacts Dr. Legendre, he can tell your vet what he sent off to the pathologist.

We had this done to rule out cancer as that would have spelled "game over".....and also to ID the bacteria(the pus and blood probably went to a different lab). We're still not out of the woods because if the baytril doesn't solve the osteomyelitis, the bone in the jaw will have to be cut away which is a treatment that is unlikely to have a good prognosis in a 5 1/2 year old pig.

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Regiane
Cavy Slave Since '08

Post   » Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:28 pm


Updating:

My vet, Dr Elisangela, sent me pictures of the teeth procedure, here's the best one:

ImageLook at that tip! :(
(You can see in the picture she has 1 upper incisor and 2 lower incisors, but one lower incisor was loose and at the end she took it off)

She compared the x-ray taken in 2011 and the one taken this time, and she said that it looks like there's teeth resorption, but it doesn't look like she have bone resorption.

I contacted Dr Legendre (thanks pinta!), and he said that "general bone changes may be connected to a systemic condition and have nothing to do with the teeth per se." He asked if she had done any blood work done. Problem is that no, she never had a blood work done because we barely have vets that know a minimum about guinea pigs here, what about one that asks for a blood test. I have no cavvy savvy vet right now, besides the dentist.

I've talked to Dr Elisangela, as Dr Legendre asked for another x-ray to try to help. We will book it. She's really trying to help me, she'll talk to the laboratory about the blood collection and with other dentist vets.

Please, can someone tell me how they collect blood from a guinea pig? And does anyone know what type of blood test we need, what to look at?

And today I was going to see how her teeth was growing and... no. She lost another incisor. *sigh*
She just have 1 lower incisor right now. She can eat pellet mash from a plate and I'm helping her, I put a bowl with water because she will have trouble with the bottle.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:43 pm


I can't answer your questions about how much blood is needed - it would depend on what tests were to be run. I think small amounts of blood can be collected from overclipping a nail. Poor girl! I can add this photo too if you'd like.

pinta

Post   » Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:57 pm


Depends on the quantity of blood needed. The vet's taken it from the jugular before(scary to me) and also managed to get some from veins on the forelegs and hindlegs. Nail clipping will also yied some blood but I'm not sure if the sample would be contaminated.

Dr. Legendre should be able to tell your vet what blood tests to get and how much blood is needed.

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Regiane
Cavy Slave Since '08

Post   » Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:19 pm


Updating:

It's almost 1 month after the teeth procedure, and the upper incisors didn't grow back. The lower incisor that fell off is growing, but strange.

Image

The lower incisor that remains good is long on purpose, as she doesn't have upper incisors. This way she can pick up food, and I'm monitoring it's lenght, so it won't hurt her gum.

Despite of that strange condition, she's active and keeping weight, she's able to pick food (chopped veggies and pellets) and she use the water bottle. You can see Pantufinha eating in this VIDEO.

As I don't have a cavvy savvy clinical vet for her, I decided for now not make her pass under anesthesia to collect blood. If she needs dental trimming again, I'll talk to the vet and see if both things can be done together.

My dentist vet talked to the cardiologist vet that works in the same clinic, but she only see dogs and cats. Here in Brazil Vetmedin is only liberated for use in dogs, so, I don't think she can help me with Pantufinha. And I need help.

2 days ago, after 5-10 minutes I gave her medicines she started acting weird, as she was incoordinate, walking dragging her back legs as she was drunk. I was so scared, I really thought she was leaving me, I picked her up and stayed with her until she got better. Then she got up, I put her back at the cage and she ate pellet mash as nothing happened. Ok. As she had a weird episode last year (stroke?), I really didn't knew what to think about it.

Then, last night, again I gave her medicines, and again the same happened!! I've read Vetmedin side affects, and it says "Continue giving Vetmedin and contact your veterinarian if your pet develops; poor appetite, drowsiness, diarrhea, labored breathing, weakness, incoordination, fainting, accumulation of fluid in the lungs or abdomen, and cough."

She was incoordinate and having little spasms and hiccups. The weird thing is that she's on the same dose of Benazepril since 2 years ago (1mg/day) and I'm giving Vetmedin for 6 months now. I was giving ⅕ of a 1,25mg capusle for the last 6 months, and since the last teeth procedure, when the vets could hear she have a heart murmur, I started giving ¼ of the capsule. It's almost one month, and just now she had this side effect. She's weighing 700g.

Does anyone saw this with your pigs? I'm thinking in not give her medicines today, and tomorrow go back to the ⅕ capsule. What do you think? Please, I don't have a vet to help me with Vetmedin, so any idea would be appreciated.

Pantufinha is fine now, the video I posted was taken this morning. Thank you again.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:03 pm


Poor girl! It does sound like you've identified a side effect. I wish I knew more about this medication and could give some advice. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than I am will post.

It is very encouraging that she is able to eat.

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GP_mum
Supporter in '13

Post   » Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:07 pm


No advice but wanted to let you know that am sending nija vibes for her continued good health.

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skinnypigs1
Supporter in '12

Post   » Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:29 pm


Ah that is frightening.
Such a tough choice for you.
I think going back down to your original dose and seeing what happens then sounds like a good place to start.

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MildredM
The-Fairy-in-my-Heart

Post   » Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:26 am


What a worry teeth can be. And those side effects. I can't offer any advice but I want to send my very best wishes to you and Pantufinha.

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jacqueline

Post   » Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:55 am


All I can add is my best wishes and prayers for a good outcome.

In humans, some medications have a long half life - they stay in the system for a long time. They can actually build up so that after time the same dose may be reacted to differently. It's almost the opposite of tolerance, where you have to give more and more to get the same effect.

I don't know if it's the same for guineas, and how they metabolize meds. Just something to think about

pinta

Post   » Mon Jul 08, 2013 4:15 am


I've never experienced that side effect with Vetmedin. Our standard dose, regardless of size of pig, is 0.3125mg(1/4 of an 1.25 mg capsule) daily.

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