Critical Care Probs, and bloating

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ThatKat

Post   » Thu Nov 27, 2003 10:56 pm


Ok, one of my new piggies has an upper respiratory and is not eating. He has been to the vet (went yesterday) and is on Sulfatrim. I got some Critical Care to feed him with last night. Apparently, I am just really dumb or don't know how to mix the stuff or something, because it is all lumpy. The directions say to mix 50/50 with water, and when I do that it is VERY think so I have to add more water. I don't want it to be really watery though. But anyway, when I try to get it in the syringe to give to him, the tip gets blocked with a lump and all I get in the syringe is air. It takes me FOREVER to get a syringe even half full, and even then, it still has a little bit of air in it. I try to get it all out, but I'm afraid there still might be too many lumps and some air in the syringe.

My poor Alfie is bloated because of it. His tummy is swollen up and I don't see him pooping. The vet checked him this morning and says she didn't feel anything that would make her think it was an obstruction.

Is there anything I can do to help his poor tummy? How long do I wait for him to poop before I panic? Does he need X Rays or something to make sure there's no obstruction?

Oh yeah.... he stinks. REALLY bad. Like urine and diarrhea mixed together. I want to bathe him but I know it would just stress him out now. His stool was mucousy yesterday but no bad bacteria or anything in it. I can see some diarrhea looking stuff around his butt, but it's just a tiny bit.

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Paravati
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Thu Nov 27, 2003 11:05 pm


Wow.. This sounds like what we went through with Rosie.

When a pig goes for a while without eating, he can get bloated when he starts being fed foods with fiber again.

Go to the pharmacy and get some liquid infant's simethicone. It's an anti-gas medicine. Give your pig between .15 - .3 cc's two or three times a day and see if that helps. This should relieve his bloat. Start off with the smaller dose (.15 cc's) and see if that helps. If not, wait about two hours and give another .15 cc's. You will be able to tell when he starts passing the gas and his stomach sounds less burbly which dose is better. If you tap on his belly, a bloated pig sounds "hollow", and the belly feels kind of tight. When he starts to pass the gas, the tightness and thunky hollow sound should go away. Rosie, who weighs around 800 grams, gets .3 cc's every 6-8 hours.

You can also ask your vet for a motility drug like Reglan or Lactulose. This will sort of get things moving through a little quicker and, when used with the Simethicone, should help him out a lot within 2 or 3 days.

The "smells like crap" thing we experienced here with Rosie once he quit eating and his system started shutting down. I believe that food got stuck in his system, and fermented in there, causing him to stink. Once your pig starts moving food through his system more quickly the smell should go away. I doubt there's an obstruction - He probably just needs a motility drug. Make absolutely sure you're giving him enough fluids - Either have him get a subcue at the vet's or syringe him unflavored Pedialyte. That will help, too. You can also fill his water bottle with Pedialyte instead of water. He will drink it. Most pigs like the taste.

Critical Care expands when it touches water. I never bother reading the directions. I put some in a baby food jar and add water until it is the consistency of thick pea soup. You can also add a small amount of baby food to smooth it out some, but you want your pig eating as much fiber as possible so you might NOT want to use Baby Food if he hasn't been eating well. I typically use baby food to add something "for taste" after the pig starts doing better.

You can cut the end off a 1 cc syringe, and it will keep the CC from getting as stuck. If it gets stuck, you can always thin it out with more water. The extra water won't do anything but help to rehydrate your pig, anyway. It's just more runny.

We have the best luck when we handfeed using a 3cc syringe. The end tip is a larger diameter and the CC doesn't get stuck, even when it's pretty thick. Your vet should be able to give you a syringe or two.

You can also mix the CC up really thick (like paste) and leave it in a small bowl in his cage for him to eat as he likes.

pinta

Post   » Thu Nov 27, 2003 11:39 pm


If he isn't pooping and his tummy is swollen you need Reglan now. It's an emergency situation. The simethicone isn't enough since it works primarily in the intestines gathering the gas bubbles into one big gas bubble(as I understand it anyway).

The Reglan stimulates the gut and helps move the food thru.

If he isn't pooping, do not forcefeed. Bloat is very serious and prompt treatment is required. If he isn't shocky(pale gums) a hydration subcue could help too.

The sulfa may not be the right AB for whatever he has. If he seems to be getting worse you need to consider swirtching to another AB.

From what you describe. I think this pig needs emergency treatment.

User avatar
ThatKat

Post   » Fri Nov 28, 2003 12:08 am


Ok.... Alfie now has something coming out of his butt. It looks like poop shaped mucous.

He's also eating lettuce on his own, but VERY slowly. I mean, it's taking him 5 minutes to eat one tiny leaf. Doc checked his teeth yesterday and said they were just fine... so I don't know what's up with that.

He had 20 cc's of SubQ fluids yesterday and today.

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Paravati
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Fri Nov 28, 2003 12:11 am


When Rosie had this problem, KM told me that the mucous comes out when their systems have started to shut down due to lack of eating. This was her opinion, but after seeing what's happened to Rosie I would agree.

If your pig is pooping mucous I think this is serious. I agree with Pinta. Take your pig to a vet NOW and get a motility drug so that he can pass his waste. One he starts passing his poops you need to aggressively handfeed this pig.

If his body starts shutting down because he's not eating, he could die. If he IS pooping, even if it's mucous, I would probably still try to hand feed him, and let him eat on his own, unless he became very bloated (note, very bloated is very subjective - I have only dealt with Bloat with Rosie, and we never stopped handfeeding him). The Simethicone will help with his gas, but a motility drug is ABSOLUTELY necessary to keep the food moving through.

If your pig is sick with a URI and is on an Antibiotic, it could be the AB that is causing him to not feel well and not eat. Also, URI symptoms could be a sign that there's another problem going on - Heart problems, teeth problems, etc. I would take him in to a vet as soon as possible and have him re-evaluated.

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melcvt00

Post   » Fri Nov 28, 2003 6:39 am


I always use a 1:3 ratio on the Critical Care; 1 part CC to 3 parts water.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Fri Nov 28, 2003 7:21 am


www.guinealynx.info/emergencymedicalguide.html#handfeeding

There's a pic of a syringe with the tip cut off. Yes, mix the Critical Care thinner than they advise. I do about two parts water to one part CC.

And get to the vet for some reglan.

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ThatKat

Post   » Fri Nov 28, 2003 10:56 pm


Ok.... I got some Reglan overnight and so far Alfie has had 3 doses. Still no poop though. But the vet saw him this morning and helped me "deflate" him. We also took X rays that showed LOTS of gas in his poor little tummy, but no apparent blockage. I have aspirated air from his tummy about 3 times today, and each time his little tummy gets softer and softer and less bloated. I'm afraid to do it any more than that - doc says the X rays and the needles and everything might stress him out.

He is eating. Not many pellets, but hay and lots of Romaine Lettuce. He's also eating carrots, which he wasn't doing last night. He's also drinking again!

I'm going to continue the Reglan at 4 doses a day until things start moving along. I'm bringing him to work tomorrow so I can obsess over him all day :-)

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Paravati
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Fri Nov 28, 2003 11:24 pm


What is the strength of the Reglan? The medication should have a concentration strength or at least a dosage strength. For example, Rosie's is 1mg/ml, and he gets .4 cc's every eight hours.

Simethicone should really help with the gas part, if you go out and get some. You can dose it as needed. What Pinta says is correct - It consolidates all the little gassy bubbles into larger bubbles that your pig can pass. When we give Rosie his Simethicone, we can actually hear him fart. It's gross, but I know every time I hear him fart that he feels better. You can get infant simethicone liquid at your grocery store pharmacy, and you can use it in combination with the Reglan. I think that's a lot less stressful than getting the gas out of him with a needle. You just give the medication orally. We've given Rosie up to .3 ml's every two or three hours when his bloat got really bad. Once he started pooping and his stomach was less distended, we backed it down to .3 mls every 8-12 hours.

Make SURE you keep handfeeding your pig. Your pig should take between 10-15 mls of food at each sitting (you need to try) and feed your pig three or four times a day, or as often as you can. You can also mix up Critical Care and leave it in a small bowl in his cage for him to eat as he wants. Don't just let him eat "on his own" - If he is sick, he probably won't be eating enough.

Don't forget to weigh him nightly, too. You want to try to feed him enough so that his weight remains fairly stable. A drop of more than 30g in a day could be very serious in a pig that's not eating.

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ThatKat

Post   » Fri Nov 28, 2003 11:30 pm


The Reglan is 5 mg/ml. Alfie weighs around 600. He is getting .1 cc's three to four times daily. That's what the Vet told me to give this morning over the phone.

Since the Simethicone is safe with the Reglan I will probably get some tomorrow after work. I can't wait to hear Alfie fart! I hated smelling all that gas we were releasing from his tummy but at least I know he's feeling better.

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ThatKat

Post   » Fri Nov 28, 2003 11:33 pm


I was afraid to keep syringe feeding him - afraid that I would make the bloat worse. But now that I know to cut off the top of the syringe (DUH) and make it more watery, I hope it will be easier on him.

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Paravati
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Fri Nov 28, 2003 11:34 pm


Yeah, Rosie's gas smells pretty bad too. But once the food starts moving through your pig more quickly (the Reglan will help) it won't be sitting around so long or be as stinky.

When Rosie is pretty sick and farts, it's almost worse than a dog fart. I've actually accused the dogs before realizing that Rosie was sitting there looking a LOT more content..

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christina

Post   » Fri Nov 28, 2003 11:35 pm


Simethicone is great stuff for gas, though I have never heard any of my piggies fart!! Smelled it before though.......

I always keep it on hand. I'm sure some liquid will be much easier on him than the needles. I hope he is feeling much better very soon!

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Paravati
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Fri Nov 28, 2003 11:37 pm


Another good food to try ThatKat is watermelon. Rosie goes nuts over it. That, and cucumber. They both have a high water content so it helps to rehydrate the pig, and I believe watermelon has a lot of C in it, too.

We give extra C and a small amount of B complex in Rosie's critical care (the same B complex that's in the subcues) and it helps to increase his appetite.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Sat Nov 29, 2003 8:44 am


No, watermellon does not have lots of C in it. It certainly does have lots of water in it though (and some simple sugars).

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Paravati
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Sat Nov 29, 2003 8:49 am


I thought it had lots of C. I am trying to remember where I heard that - I think Xan told me. Shows what boys know. Hah!

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Sat Nov 29, 2003 9:08 am


Here's an ordered list of vitamin C in vegs. You can print it out (I think).

http://www.guinealynx.info/nutrition.html#order-c

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Paravati
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Sat Nov 29, 2003 11:45 am


This might be a really stupid question, Lynx.. But whenever I try to print anything from this site, it always cuts off the right-hand margin. I can't seem to figure out why. I've tried printing it out to a PDF and then reducing the PDF, too.. And it still doesn't work. For example, the Meds page is something I print out whenever I go to a new vet. And it always cuts off the right hand part of the sheet, no matter what size paper I print on or how much I tell it to reduce. Is this a "duh" question? Is there something I'm doing wrong?

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Sat Nov 29, 2003 6:26 pm


Use the menu for "page set up". Maybe there is something in there that indicates you are sizing things wrong.

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ThatKat

Post   » Sat Nov 29, 2003 9:04 pm


Ok... Alfie has had 2 doses (.15 each) of the Simethicone 3 hours apart. The latest was about 15 minutes ago. Still no farting, though, and no pooping either. Doc looked at him today and said "He doesn't look good." But of course, this is a different doctor than the one that saw him at first. The one that saw him first noticed his eyes looked better. But still, whenever he's sitting down he's hunched up and his eyes are half closed. THey aren't running anymore, though, and his nose isn't crusy anymore.

The second Dr. that saw him said to discontinue the Sulfatrim - he's afraid it could be causing the bloat or something.

I gave Alfie veggies this morning and he actually got excited and started gobbling them. But he keeps falling asleep while he's eating! And he didn't eat all his veggies, and only ate a little bit of hay. And he still won't touch his pellets. So guess that means more Critical Care....

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