Uterine Bleeding -- pyometra? cysts? surgery?

pinta

Post   » Wed Jan 23, 2002 7:04 pm


My vet feels the surgical risks outweigh the potential benefits and will not spay unless there is a madical reason. She has never lost a dog or cat to a spay, but pigs are a whole different surgical proposition. They are not the same as a dog or cat.

Having lost 2 pigs to spays( one on the table and one post-op to surgical adhesions), I would not have the surgery done unless medically indicated. I have had 2 totally successful spays that saved my pigs´ lives. I suspect if I had another 10 spays done, they´d would probably be problem free, bringing my experiences back into the more normal statistical realm. Vicki of Jack Pine Guinea Pig rescue has had many, many successful spays and has had more complications with neuterings.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Wed Jan 23, 2002 7:48 pm


Thanks so much for your responses.

Josephine, out of curiousity, would you think any blood in urine due to stones would also involve an infection (i.e. no infection, increased probability of reproductive problems)?

Regarding a something like a spay, how long does the surgery and recovery typically take? Does one drop off a pet for the whole day or stick around? (This vet is 40 minutes away. )

I wish this vet did ultrasounds, but it does not appear anyone around here has the equipment to do so on small animals (and has competent diagnosticians). Of the two recommended gp vets in the area, the one that has an ultrasound claims the wand is too big and they can´t do it.

I think you are right there is still a strong possibility something is wrong. I won´t assume Nina is off scot-free if she stops bleeding in a couple days. I´ll get them both examined, sooner rather than later.

Evangeline

Post   » Wed Jan 23, 2002 8:08 pm


Lynx-
I read the whole thread, but don´t know enough to really contribute to it. I´m hoping everything will be ok for your pigs, though.

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lisam

Post   » Wed Jan 23, 2002 8:46 pm


My vet did the spay during his lunch hour, probably about an hour or less. We left Amidala there after her appointment, and they wanted to keep her there for observation 12 hours after the surgery. I will pick her up tomorrow. I bet that each vet office does it differently.

I haven´t asked yet about the recovery time for a spay. Hopefully someone will know, if not I´ll let you know after I pick her up tomorrow. I do think, however, that the assistants and staff at my vet are more used to dog and cat spays, and may not be aware of the need for her to begin eating asap. I can´t wait to get her home tomorrow.

pinta

Post   » Wed Jan 23, 2002 9:01 pm


In my experience 10 days or so to complete recovery. They can seem fine after 3 or 4 days, but it is still important to restrict moverment so as to avoid adhesions.

Evangeline

Post   » Wed Jan 23, 2002 9:02 pm


Damn! Now, I´m paranoid. I´ve never had to deal with ovarian cysts or anything of the kind, and I´m always freaked out at the thought I could miss the first signs. This whole episode doesn´t help me feel more confident, either. I keep palpating my sows to the point I think I qualify as a pig molester and they have this look on their face, like "here we go again...".

Josephine
Little Jo Wheek

Post   » Wed Jan 23, 2002 10:14 pm


Cystitis is often present with stones, but we have diagnosed many animals with stones and/or obstructed urethras (male dogs/cats) without accompanying cystitis. So I generally don´t rule out stones completely if they are free of infection. I also do not rule out a bladder infection unless a culture (usually with MIC) is negative and/or the cavy has been on two different antibiotics. I put one of my sows through a bladder biopsy during a spay for cysts because her cystitis did not resolve with Baytril and there were abnormalities in an ultrasound. The histopath was negative, so we put her on Bactrim which immediately cleared up the infection! Had I known better, I would have tried the Bactrim sooner, but we didn´t even do a culture after a negative cysto urinalysis. She had no stones or crystals.

It is true that there are varying probes for the ultrasound. Cats and dogs typically use sizes less than 10 (mHz?). Cavies need at least 12 (the larger the number, the smaller it is). Your ultrasound tech can record the procedure and print pictures to send to specialists if necessary, but the probe part is a problem. Are there any teaching hospitals around? I wonder if a human pediatric type probe is small enough? You might have problems finding someone in human medicine who would sneak in a cavy, but it´s another idea at least. With the tapes/pictures it would be doable. I know many human medicine RTs who xray their own pets and send the films to their vet (sometimes with very interesting techniques and positioning)!


I´m not really an advocate of preventative spaying of cavies, but it does surely make a difference in their health. The sows I have spayed have been for medical reasons and have lived long, healthy lives afterwards. One was so thin I was afraid she´d die on the table or of complications soon afterwards. She lived three more years until she was euthanized for preexisting severe liver disease/complications!

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Wed Jan 23, 2002 10:25 pm


I´ll see if I can find out anything tomorrow. UVA has a lab research area (I understand they have guinea pigs). There might be a small possibility they would know something.

Pinta, exactly how confined an area would you offer for a cavy recovering from surgery? I have a 20X30 area but that is almost like a small cage. Are you talking really small? So they don´t have to walk to get anything? I know any confined pig would be angry and chewing at the bars. When I used to try blocking pigs in or out of an area so they weren´t all together (to give a pig a chance to eat some food) they would find some way to get through. They just didn´t like not being together.

pinta

Post   » Wed Jan 23, 2002 11:09 pm


Very confined. Basically just big enough to turn around in. I use a duck carrier(don´t ask) that´s about 12" x 15". I line it with towels over a hot water bottle with a food bowl in the corner and a drinking bottle attached poking though one of the airholes.

Yeah, the pig gets pissed and glowery, but having seen one die from adhesions and finding out they´re caused by scar tissue ripping and rebuilding until the scar tissue causes blockage - the pig can just suffer for a few days. Small price to pay.

kleenmama
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Thu Jan 24, 2002 12:44 am


Lisam, I hope things go great with Amidala. Did you use Dr. Harris? Just out of curiosity, how much does he charge for a spay? I might need him myself, some time.

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lisam

Post   » Thu Jan 24, 2002 9:34 am


Well, I told my husband just a little over $100, although it was actually more like $150. I thought I may be able to get it done for less, but I do trust Dr. Harris (most of the time) and wasn´t so sure about anyone else in the area. The ultrasound would have added an additional $135 to the bill.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Thu Jan 24, 2002 1:24 pm


I called all around to find out if anyone was equipped to do a gp ultrasound. One person said he could do it but doesn´t see guinea pigs. Others said it was usually a referral to someone in distant Richmond or Virginia Tech. People who read their own ultrasounds didn´t know enough about guinea pigs to feel comfortable doing it.

I did talk to one helpful vet who suggested examining the bloody discharge under a microscope. He said you could tell if there was an infection present and also if there were a-typical cells. I posted in the reference forum how a guinea pig may have experienced the first pap smear. It would seem any reproductive cancerous problems might actually show up this way.

I think Nina may have quit bleeding so there may be nothing to check but I´ll bring this up when I haul them in to see the vet. Maybe she could get a pap smear (or something like it).

I am a little fuzzy about this, but I think the vet I talked to today (who I understand is also a local "radio" vet) may have said that often with an ultrasound and suspicious bleeding, you may end up doing surgery to find out what is going on even if nothing shows up on an ultrasound. I think this is why he suggested analysing the discharge as a first step in diagnosis.

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