Ginger's Medical Thread

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sosumi

Post   » Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:47 pm


Our Ginger has a stone in her bladder. We have a vet that is relatively ok, been going there for some time. We don’t know of any other vets with any guinea pig experience.

The vet's game plan was to see if he could manipulate the stone out through the urethra. If that didn't work, then surgery while she was still under anesthesia. My husband mentioned pushing it back into the bladder to buy some time and get her a little healthier since she had lost some weight and had some stasis issues because of the pain.

It sounded like the vet didn't even think of that option but agreed to it. I also asked him how many cystotomies he did and after trying to avoid the question, he replied "a fair amount!" He also put her survival at less than 50% if a cystotomy was done. Well, he couldn't get the stone out but did push it back into the bladder. She is three years old. That was on Thursday.

She is now on Meloxicam, Baytril, Reglan, and Cisipride. I have to force feed her critical care, as her weight is still dropping. She munches on hay, but not enough.

Overnight, she left a few pink spots on the bedding. She is urinating, but today there is still a pinkness where she goes.

We have been mixing oxbow and KMS pellets with bladder stones in mind.

I am hoping you can recommend someone near the Detroit area, I'm willing to travel, who has more experience with guinea pigs and who might have a better outcome with removal of the stone via the urethra (can the urethra be dilated?) or through cystotomy. Are there any alternatives? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

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sosumi

Post   » Sat Jun 28, 2014 4:01 pm


I see there have been quite a few views of this thread but no replies.

She is leaving some blood when she pees, but not every time. We are making her drink extra fluids including diluted cranberry juice and shilingtong.

Does the blood mean the stone is on the way out?

We have been in contact with 2 other vets, one out of state (that used to be nearby) and one a couple hours away. They both mentioned there are ways to make the stone shrink.

Can anyone offer some suggestions of alternatives or how to shrink the stone?

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:47 pm


I agree with you that it is worthwhile looking for a vet with more experience and better outcomes. From what I have read here, most stone removals are relatively successful and people report good recovery with proper postop care.

I have not come across any reliable methods of making the stones shrink. Guess I would keep looking for a good vet.

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Delaine
Supporter in '14

Post   » Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:32 am


I am so sorry to hear Ginger has a stone. I know how stressful it is.

In September 2013 my sow Zoe was passing blood in her urine and losing weight. An X-ray showed two small stones. The vet said because they were small we would wait and see if she could pass them.

I changed from Oxbow pellets to KMS and limited the daily amount. I added two more water bottles to my two sows' cage and increased their exercise. I had already been eliminating high calcium greens.

In January I heard Zoe crying when urinating and saw she had passed some very gritty urine with two small stones. A couple of weeks later she passed some more urine with large gritty deposits. After that she started to gain weight and seemed so much better.

In April 2014 I had another X-ray done and the stones were gone. I had saved the stones to show the vet. We were very lucky the stones were passed and didn't grow in size.

Did you see how large the stone was? Is it small enough to pass or is surgery the only option?

I think eliminating Oxbow pellets, encouraging her to drink more water and move around more made a huge difference.

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Delaine
Supporter in '14

Post   » Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:38 am


I would be interested in what the vets said about shrinking the stones.

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:22 am


"It sounded like the vet didn't even think of that option but agreed to it."

Not a good vet. Backflushing is a common protocol to get the stone back in the bladder where it can be surgically removed more easily, and with less potential for damage to surrounding tissues. Your husband knows more than that particular vet does.

"He also put her survival at less than 50% if a cystotomy was done."

Bull@#$%.

"(can the urethra be dilated?)"

Sorta kinda per se. A veterinary teaching hospital, and some extremely well-equipped vets, can slip a tinytiny kitten catheter in there and attempt to flush it out. There's been a couple of cases on here where that has been successful. Much easier with females than with males.

The stone can be dug out of the urethra in a female, but it's got to be pretty darn close to the opening to do this nonsurgically.

"Does the blood mean the stone is on the way out?"

Possibly but not necessarily. It's more likely that the stone is irritating the bladder wall. Mammalian bladders for reasons unknown to me are extremely sensitive; lots of surface blood vessels and the tissues bleed easily.

"They both mentioned there are ways to make the stone shrink."

Mumble. Not reliably. We've had a couple of cases here, Delaine's being the most recent as far as I recall, where this has worked. The stones most frequently don't actually shrink so much as break apart and then the grit is passed.

I know we've got some folks in your area. Hopefully one will see your thread before too long with a good veterinary recommendation.

Any surgery is risky in a small animal that is very sensitive to sedation. That said, a cystotomy is (very relatively speaking) not very invasive (that is, the body cavity itself isn't disturbed). With a good surgeon and good aftercare, the prognosis is usually excellent with a pig in otherwise good health and thrift.

https://www.guinealynx.info/cabinet/inde ... s_Michigan

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:27 am


ETA: a pain medication like buprenorphine (Buprenex) can help alleviate pain and also act as a mild muscle relaxant, helping the animal to pass small stones and heavy grit that they might otherwise not be able to.

It is a narcotic and can zonk them out. If you find a vet willing to use it (it's a prescription med), use the very smallest effective dose. But it can have a helpful muscle relaxant (in addition to pain relieving) effect.

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sosumi

Post   » Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:32 pm


Thank you everyone for your thoughtful and detailed responses.

Last night she stopped passing urine, so we took her to the emergency vet and she had surgery. It was frightening, but this hospital (24/7) has experience with guinea pigs. We've taken other pigs there previously. And I like that they have 1 vet and 2 techs on staff throughout the night. (Our regular vet does not have overnight care.) They also have an exotics ward with incubators, etc.

They called us when she was in recovery and she was doing well. Two hours later she was still doing well and had eaten a bit on her own. We left some greens with the staff to offer to her.

She is still at the hospital. I will be calling shortly for an update and to find out when we can pick her up.

We are busy getting her recovery cage ready and reading all of the post-op care info from here. Lots of great information and tips. I like the idea of having a 3 sided box to pick her up. My husband is working on that now.

We don't have any questions at the moment, but I am guessing something will come up during her recovery. I will post updates.

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Delaine
Supporter in '14

Post   » Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:27 pm


Thank you for the update. I am sorry she had to have surgery but it sounds like she is doing well. It is a comfort to know a vet is on staff throughout the night.

My other sow Abbey had surgery for a very large sebaceous cyst just over 2 weeks ago so I can relate to the post-op care. I hope everything goes well and she will be up and about very soon. Looking forward to the next update.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:20 pm


I hope she recovers well.

www.guinealynx.info/.html

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:20 am


It's wonderful that you have a decent ER vet near you. So many places do not have the experience with, or equipment for, exotics, much less someone knowledgeable on staff 24 hours.

Be prepared to see blood in her urine, sometimes bright and clumpy, for a day or two. It may also smell horrible. That's to be expected.

Make sure they send you home with pain medication.

Please keep us posted as to how she's doing.

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sosumi

Post   » Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:59 pm


Thanks everyone!

This post was really helpful to us, too, Lynx and I would recommend it be read by anyone going through a surgery.

viewtopic.php?t=69865&highlight=stones

Ginger stayed an extra night, which was fine with us! We picked her up yesterday afternoon. There was still blood in here urine and some clots yesterday but today if there is any blood it is not very noticeable... so far. She is walking around but is still not eating on her own. We suspect it's the abx. Ginger has always become anorectic when on abx. So we are hand feeding CC.

Her stools are also very dry and she is straining to defecate. At first we thought it was a problem urinating. So we really have to push the water. Our vet wants to try a little torb, but I am Leary that it may slow her GI tract down. Then again, it would make her more comfortable.

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