Drooling, not eating

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Talishan
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Post   » Sun Apr 12, 2015 7:07 am


Ditto Sardonic Smile. Try making a pellet mash, adding some baby food only, or maybe just a little apple and parsley. Most good-quality pellets are hay-based, and that will give his molars at least a little bit of a workout.

There are European handfeeding products that serve the same purpose as Critical Care. Here's one:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Supreme-Science-Recovery-Plus-Sachet ... nce+recovery

http://www.amazon.de/Supreme-Science-Recovery-Plus-gr/dp/B00 ... nce+recovery

Also:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId ... 11BE5ED9F807

http://www.amazon.de/Oxbow-Critical-Care-Pflanzenfresser-Pac ... ritical+care

https://www.amazon.de/gp/help/customer/display.html/ref=hp_d ... C8704F83068F

I am taking a real wild guess at the German, but I think they ship to Romania.

Rufi

Post   » Sun Apr 12, 2015 7:41 am


@SardonicSmile:Thank you!
@Talishan: Thank you for the umpteenth time for the infos! I had no idea that Amazon delivers to Romania. I will try to make the order.
The truth is, I wanted calories-full mix. And I tried quite a few mashes, and this one he likes. But if You say that it is not healthy, I will change the recipe of the slurry.

Talishan
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Post   » Sun Apr 12, 2015 7:49 am


There's calories and there's calories.

Yes, he needs the most calories he can get to help give him energy and keep his weight up. The problem is that a cavy's digestive system and metabolism work differently from those of a human or a dog.

Guinea pigs' systems are not set up to handle large amounts of carbohydrates and sugars, which is what would help a human gain weight. Also, their teeth, which grow continuously, need to be kept worn down, which isn't a problem humans or dogs have.

You need to strike a balance between fiber to wear his teeth, good quality calories that his body can use, and what tastes good to him.

A little banana and apple mixed in will not hurt him and it may help him eat more readily. Those should not be the majority of the food, though. You want the majority of the food to be grass (hay, in the form of pellets) with some vegetables (from baby food, or cut into small pieces and handfed directly) and a small amount of fruit for palatability mixed in.

If what you're feeding him now is mostly softened pellets, that's fine. It is important that he like it; if he doesn't like it, that only makes your job ten times harder. But he needs fiber to keep his GI tract, and his teeth, healthy.

Rufi

Post   » Sun Apr 12, 2015 2:20 pm


The major ingredient of his mix was/is Guinea pig food. Anyway, I removed the apple and banana from his mix, but he doesn't like it, and it is really hard to hand feed a cavy when he doesn't want to eat. I will not be able to maintain his weight. So I added a little bit of banana and apple.

Erinspigs

Post   » Sun Apr 12, 2015 10:53 pm


I can't give medical advice but it seems to me Rufi has great will to survive which I think matters. That he was trying so hard to eat and that you and he are maintaining his weight sounds like he can make it.

I just wanted to give you encouragement because you are so committed to him and it looks like he is responding. Best wishes and come on Rufi, get better, keep going!

Rufi

Post   » Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:47 am


@Erinspigs: In Rufi's name I thank you!:)

Talishan
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Post   » Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:51 am


Huge ditto to Erinspigs.

Rufi -- put in the mix just enough fruit to make it palatable to him. You want the minimum amount to get him to like it. That will take a little experimentation. Try experimenting with adding in a little bit of different flavors of baby food.

Can you get canned pumpkin?

Rufi

Post   » Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:14 am


Hmm, never tried to buy canned pumpkin, but I presume one can find it in the stores. I will have a look. I should put the pumpkin into the mix instead of the banana and apples?
I also try to vary his diet a little bit, adding different vegetables (like bell peppers, cucumber or radish). Since he is on this diet for more than 5 weeks and his intestinal transit seems to be Ok, it gives me hope that this diet didn't hurt him (so much). I must really have those Critical Care, then I will have not to worry because of this issue.

P.S. Like I said, Rufi can slice and eat (though a part of the food falls out of his mouth - I hope because his front teeth are too short) certain foods like cucumber, but he doesn't do anything with hay, though he is interested. What could be the reason? Maybe his teeth are too short for hay, but not for bell peppers?

Talishan
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Post   » Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:35 am


If you look for canned pumpkin, make sure it's pure pumpkin only, and not a pie filling mix with added spices.

It has a lot of fiber, and many guinea pigs like it.

Pigs are different in how much fruit sugar they can tolerate. If his GI is doing okay on the recipe you're giving him, then don't mess with it. The Critical Care, when you get it, will help work his teeth.

Can he chew with his back teeth (molars) properly (or at least as far as you can tell)?

Rufi

Post   » Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:15 am


Thanks for the tip with the canned pumpkin!
10 days ago I took Rufi to a vet to chip down his molars. He was drooling and swallowing real slow. After the operation his face had swollen, but now, it seems to me, chews without problems (though he eats only "soft" food (e.g., mix, cucumber)).

Rufi

Post   » Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:55 am


I forgot to mention that when the vet clipped his molars he did the same for his incisors also.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:53 pm


I hope he did not clip the incisors too short.

gl/teeth_broken.html

Rufi

Post   » Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:33 am


I think they were clipped too short, he couldn't grab anything for around 4 days. From around the 7th day he could slice "soft" food (e.g. cucumber), he chews on it, but spits out a very big part of the food, though he remains interested to the food (now we are at the 11th day).
I know this is a very complicated case (dislocated jaw, trimmed molars and incisors), four vets have seen him and couldn't say why he is behaving like this. But the information which I receive here on the forum is very valuable (for example, Talishan said that Rufi has a dislocated jaw which proved to be true after the x-rays). Anyway, Rufi was through a great deal of pain, he has the will to survive, I would like very much to help him.

Talishan
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Post   » Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:09 am


If I had to guess -- and this is purely a guess -- the jaw dislocation is making it to where he can eat and chew comfortably only up to a point (that is, within a limited range of motion). Past that point, the jaw hinge does not meet properly, bone grinds against bone, and that hurts. Below that point, or within a narrower than normal range of comfortable jaw motion, he can eat.

That is a guess only!!

Keep him on the lowest possible dose of pain medication that will keep him comfortable, and keep handfeeding him. He may require a low dose of pain med, and handfeeding, for a very long time to come. If you can keep his weight stable and he seems happy, comfortable and behaving normally otherwise, you're doing all the right things.

Rufi

Post   » Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:31 am


@Talishan: Presuming your guess is correct, can't be the jaw dislocation operated? I read that it is also possible that, in jaw dislocation cases, a "false articulation" forms.
I ask these since, as you also pointed out, not eating normally can lead easily to complications (teeth overgrowing, weight loss, etc).

Talishan
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Post   » Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:53 am


I am emphatically not a bone specialist, orthopedist or chiropractor in any way, shape or form, but if "false articulation" means a partial or crooked resetting of the jaw alignment, resulting in a range of motion limited and/or misangled/misaligned from the normal, then yes, that's what I am speculating (pure speculation,mind!!) has happened to him.

Dislocations can be medically treated, but the vet, or orthopedist, or animal physiotherapist HAS GOT TO know what they are doing. Got to. It is my understanding that the jaw can be gently worked back into place under sedation, but it HAS to be done by someone who REALLY knows what they are doing.

SardonicSmile

Post   » Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:26 am


Could a chin sling be an option?

Rufi

Post   » Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:53 am


I called the vet who made the x-rays (there were 3 x-rays made from different angles). He said that if the jaw is not in place it can be seen on the x-rays.
(@Talishan: Personally (of course I am no specialist unfortunately) I find beside your guess no other logical explanation).
Should I post the x-rays on the forum, is there somebody who can interpret them? A second opinion could not hurt.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:33 am


Pinta's animal physiotherapist was able to rock the jaw back into place when it was dislocated. You can't try this yourself. Only someone who really knows what they are doing can do this.

Usually a pig is under sedation during an xray, at which time the jaw muscles are slack - making it hard to tell.

Talishan
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Post   » Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:02 pm


Sardonic -- I can't say for sure, but if the jaw is misaligned I'd be afraid a Chin-Sling would do more harm than good.

If an expert could properly re-place his jaw, then it might very well do a lot of good therapeutically afterward -- my gut hunch only. But the jaw would have to be in the correct, normal position first, if it is not already. I think.

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