URI - Sneezing/Wheezing - Dandelion & Burr (first pigs)

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:21 pm


Sounds very encouraging. I would also review info on managing pain post op that Talishan has provided.

https://www.guinealynx.info/postop.html#pain

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JadeMagpie

Post   » Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:14 pm


Lynx and others - do you think I should ask my vet for a narcotic painkiller? To me, Burr definitely looks like he is in constant pain, especially for the few hours before he's going to get his next dose of Meloxicam (which the internet tells me is an NSAID)?

How chipper/mobile should I expect him to be? Right now he's almost completely immobile, just a furry ball sitting uncomfortably in one place for hours at a time.

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JadeMagpie

Post   » Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:12 pm


He's regained a lot of energy - and that means he is fighting the heck out of me when it comes to eating.

I feel like I am holding him firmly, but he is so squirmy and strong and bites hard, and head-butts and just resists. If I loosen my grip for a second he tries to run away. He wiggles out of burritos. He clamps his mouth shut. He decides to stop chewing and just let it drip out of his mouth.

He will eat a little food his own - he ate about 2/3ds of a large leaf of green leaf lettuce, and it sounds like he is munching on his hay. He ate maybe 3-4 pellets earlier with his buddy Dandelion.

All together, I got maybe 6CC of critical care into him today. Yesterday he ate it off the spoon. Today he wants nothing to do with it.

Tried spinach, apple, pear, and carrot baby food. No dice. Tried making the CC thick. Tried it thin. No dice. I'm so frustrated. I am not sure since he's eating sort-of if I should get someone to help me and really just super-force feed him, or if I should let him be and hope his appetite keeps increasing?

I haven't slept more than three hours straight since Monday night.

I just gave pain meds, I'll try again in a couple hours. I feel defeated.

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GP_mum
Supporter in '13

Post   » Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:07 pm


Hang in there. Force feeding can be very tiring especially when your pig is not cooperating. However, remember that your force feeding is helping your pig stay alive.

It's encouraging that that he is eating a little on his own.
For the CC, if he does not want to eat off a spoon, could you spread a little over something that he likes. I am feeding CC mash to my girl twice a day and she'll eat only 1/2 of the mash on her own. The remainder, I thinly spread over bits of cherry tomato (all seeds have been removed) or on very small thin slices of cucumber. Both are her faves and she'll eat the CC mash this way.

It does take some time as only very tiny amounts of CC mash can be spread on the vegetable (like jam). Any thicker (which would speed things up) and she'll manage to eat the vegetable slice and drop the CC on the floor.

Hope this helps. Fighting you does seem to indicate that he's feeling better as well though.

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JadeMagpie

Post   » Thu Aug 06, 2015 1:25 pm


I know that I am supposed to keep Burr isolated from his cagemate after surgery - the vet said 1 week minimum - but I chose to take a risk and add Dandelion to Burr's hospital cage.

Last night Burr was in bad shape. He wouldn't move, aggressively refused to eat, was puffy and lethargic and overall just miserable.

I put Dandelion in the cage, and Burr got up greeted him with his customary rumble. Since then - Burr made significant improvement.

The "hospital cage" is literally on my bed (the side I don't sleep on butts against a big dresser, so the cage is secure from falling. I was able to monitor them all night long, move the water bottle to whatever side of the cage Burr was on, and hand-feed pellets (which Burr seems to like).

Burr is MUCH more mobile now that his friend is with him. Dandelion basically sleeps and eats and sometimes sniffs Burr. Dandelion's eating seems to make Burr think about eating more often, and Dandelion's excitement for food seems to stimulate Burr a bit. Dandelion is a super laid back, sweet, snuggly pig.

I did some office work this morning and when I checked on them just a few minutes ago, Burr was sitting alert in the middle of his cage (instead of in the corner), munching on hay.

With Dandelion in the cage, I've noticed:
- Burr has returned to "talking" (he's a talkative pig) and makes both his annoyed squeals and his contented/curious clucks now
- Burr's posture is better - he's way more alert
- Burr moves around the cage
- Increase in drinking water on his own
- Interest in all kinds of veggies
- Eating some hay on his own

We aren't out of the woods yet - who knows what could happen. I'm keeping a close eye on them - but this is by far the most "normal" Burr has seemed since returning from the vet.

Just an ASIDE - Burr has always "called out" with a special high-pitched wheek whenever I would remove Dandelion from the cage for solo-cuddles. The same kind of call baby pigs make when you separate them from their mother (I know because I fostered a pregnant piggy for the humane society once a few years ago). Burr and Dandelion cuddle sometimes, and always sleep near one another. Burr is also a very social piggy - he's super attached to me. He's not cuddly or very friendly, but when we are at the Vet or he's scared, he does a bee-line for my arms and is only content if he's cradled in my arms against my chest. I think he just really needs constant company.


EDIT: I am giving up on critical care for now - even when thinly spread on veggies, he will refuse to eat that veggie entirely. I have no idea why he is being so picky. He also hates all the baby food AND the pie filling.

I am weighing regularly and if it doesn't hold steady I'll get aggressive or take him back to the vet. I AM being super active about offering food and water and hand-feeding. I'm home all week so I'm able to watch him closely for small changes.
Last edited by JadeMagpie on Thu Aug 06, 2015 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Thu Aug 06, 2015 1:28 pm


Sounds like putting them together was the right thing to do. Primarily you want to avoid TOO much activity as it can increase the chance of adhesions in more invasive surgeries.

Sounds like they are really pals.

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JadeMagpie

Post   » Thu Aug 06, 2015 4:26 pm


Friendship really is the best medicine. It's 3:00PM and burr is currently chowing down on a bowl of pellets and drinking water between each bite. Lots of breaks for hay munching.

He's alert, his eyes are bright and sassy, and he's up and active. When he naps, he lies down all comfy-like and rests his head too, no more hunched-up ball!

It's pretty dark in there or else I'd snap a picture. Anyway, I'll only post again if we start losing progress. I think from here on out we'll be OK. Fingers crossed!

Crazy4me

Post   » Thu Aug 06, 2015 10:00 pm


So glad to hear that things are improving; it has got to be on-ward and up-ward from here!!

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Thu Aug 06, 2015 11:50 pm


You did everything right. So did Dandelion. ;-)

Next surgery, though, if anyone else has to have one -- do your best to get a narcotic to use for the first day, day and a half, such as buprenorphine. Tramadol will do, too, but some pigs need more than just an NSAID. (Even if you had just minor surgery, would a couple of Advils do it for you? Probably not. Same thing.)

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GP_mum
Supporter in '13

Post   » Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:02 am


Glad to read the he's better, more alert and eating. Having his friend with him really did make a difference. Continued well wishes on his recovery.

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JadeMagpie

Post   » Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:20 pm


Hi! It has been a year since Burr's surgery, and he's been doing well until recently. He is currently 5 and 1/2 years old.

About a week ago, I noticed that he looked a little skinny, so started weighing him again. I have not been doing the recommended weekly/monthly weigh-ins for the last year or so, hence why I did not notice quickly.(I should be doing this, I know)

About a year ago, he was weighing about 900-950 grams. When I weighed him 5 days ago, he was at 785. I started watching him closely and found that:
  • * He would eat pellets, seemed not to have trouble picking them up.
    * He would devour veggies
    * He was active, responsive, running around
There were no other signs of illness that I could see. Checked for sludge, poked him for lumps and stones, looked at his front teeth, listened to his heart and lungs with a stethoscope. I found nothing abnormal.

CONTEXT: I recently changed the hay we normally use in August to a grass hay blend bought locally. It was more stalky and had thinner blades.

I thought maybe Burr didn't like the new hay, and this was the cause of the weight drop. I ordered Bluegrass again from KMS and started to give him extra pellets and carrots. Yet he dropped to 765g on Friday, so I called my vet in the afternoon and picked up Critical Care for the weekend.

** Friday night he ate a teaspoon worth of Critical Care.

** Saturday he ate about the same amount of critical care, but the KMS Hay finally arrived that day, so he got a bunch of that and was happily eating it. He dropped a little weight and was hovering at 750.

** Sunday he seemed to be eating, and stopped willingly taking critical care from me. I had to force feed him, but he fought me. I got maybe 3ccs of food into him before I gave up. I was worried I was over-feeding him because I wasn't sure how much he had eaten on his own, and he had so much energy to fight me with that I assumed he couldn't be too seriously sick.

** Monday I left him be after he refused critical care again, and was nasty with me when I tried to syringe feed. He was stable at 750 and not dropping.

** Tuesday **this morning** I weighed him before leaving for work for the day, and I got 711g on the scale! I was in a hurry to leave for a very important appointment, so I made arrangements for my family to give him veggies and critical care during the day while I was gone.

I called the vet when they opened. The soonest they could see him was tomorrow morning (Wednesday), I booked a 9:30 appointment. When I got home today at 5pm, my mother told me that he had eaten critical care willingly out of a bowl, and had munched 1/3 of a salad she made for him (cilantro, green pepper, carrots, 1 cut up grape).

There were several small poops in his cage. It did not look like he really ate much of the critical care to me. There were still a lot of veggies left in the bowl, which normally Burr would've completely eaten. Sometimes Burr won't eat green peppers, but he always eats carrots, and there were still many carrots left in that dish (but mixed in with peppers).

I tried to hand feed carrots, and he would take them from me, but nothing else. I have tried to get him to eat critical care tonight. He only took 1cc willingly. I am about to force feed him in a few minutes after checking how much to give him and how often. Tonight when I offer full baby carrots, he will eat them up. I see him munching hay in his cage. However, he no longer wants to eat his pellets. I even tried making a pellet mash, nope. He does not want the mash OR the fresh pellets.

>>>>><<<<<>>>>><<<<<>>>>><<<<<>>>>>
NOTE! The bags of pellets are new too, I bought them just a couple weeks ago. They are the same brand (Oxbow) as usual, just new bags. I noticed that Dandelion, his buddy, who loves to eat, has been leaving some in the bowl overnight. Now I am wondering if maybe there's something with the pellets? But the other pigs seem to be eating them fine.
>>>>><<<<<>>>>><<<<<>>>>><<<<<>>>>>

I threw away the old bowl of pellets, and refilled their bowl with new ones. Dandelion started eating those. Burr responded in a very strange way. Burr sniffed the refilled pellet bowl, then walked away and sort of just looked at me. Then he started wheeking for food and sniffing around like he was hungry. It's so strange. He is acting very hungry - he comes running for critical care, but after his first few mouthfuls, won't take any more than that and fights me terribly when I use a syringe.

Looking at him today, his hair seems a bit puffed up - but he is an abby and is always kind of puffy looking. He looked a little hunched up, but then again, he is always kinda like standing like that as well. I can't tell. I put him in a laundry basket with a blanket and watched him, after I didn't respond to his sniffing around for me, he grabbed the fleece with his teeth and pulled on it slowly (he does something similar to my shirt or skin when he wants to go home after being held). I cannot tell if he is scared to be out of his cage and away from Dandelion and just wants to go home, or if he's in pain and feeling sick.

Any ideas? Do you think it could be a bad batch of pellets? The other pigs weigh their normal weights, except Dandelion is a bit fat now from the extra pellets since they share a cage. Everyone is eating fine it seems.

-> If it were his teeth, he wouldn't be eating carrots or hay, right?
-> What other signs should I be looking for?
-> Should I pull him out of his main cage for the night? How strictly should I feed him with critical care?
-> Should I crack open an acidophilus probiotic and mix that in with anything?
-> Can I keep giving him carrots since he is eating those?
-> What more could I be doing while we wait for the vet, if anything?

~~~~o~~~~~o~~~~~o~~~~~o
one last note : He did have surgery last year for a cyst. I noticed another cyst on his side while inspecting him a couple days ago, it was very very tiny. I am wondering if he might have internal cysts that are making it hard for him to eat somehow? How do we find that out?

TLDR Burr is eating less and has become extremely picky. He dropped an alarming amount of weight. Vet appointment tomorrow. No other signs of sickness. Other pigs are all normal. What am I missing?

User avatar
Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:28 pm


Read over www.guinealynx.info/.html Evaluate his weight using the guidelines on that page. Note that a weight loss of an ounce or so may be a normal fluctuation.

Continue to weigh him daily.

Read over www.guinealynx.info/.html too.That he is eating carrots and hay is a good sign.

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