At least 128 dead in terror attack Paris 13 November 2015

GPIG

Post   » Sat Nov 28, 2015 9:16 pm


Jaqueline, I think your feelings are perfectly normal; it's a very difficult situation. I'm reluctant to even suggest a "camp" type environment because I've seen the camps in Albania, Palestine. They are breeding grounds for more hate, the conditions are deplorable. We can do better, much better.

We have spent upwards of a trillion dollars developing the next generation American strike fighter. It doesn't work and it's not needed. We need to take the lead and start allocating some of that money into creating situations that do not foment war but rather create opportunities for peace. It is possible.

There will always be those who wish to hate, make war, conquer and they must be dealt with in the only way they understand but we do not need to continue to pick a side in every global conflict, arm that side and then expect the other side to not hate us and seek revenge. This doctrine has been accelerating at pace that is bringing us to the brink of world war. We our medaling everywhere and when real genocide occurs we stand back and do nothing.

Bookfan
For the Love of Pigs

Post   » Sun Nov 29, 2015 1:31 pm


Interesting perspective, GPIG. And a possible solution to the help solve the help refuges/preserve homeland security problem. But how to implement it?

My Air Force Reserve dad used to go on active duty once a year for a week, doing I don't know what. But I remember him saying once, after one of those weeks in the 1970's, that if we have another world war, it will start in the Mid-East. Seems that's still the case.

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JaneDoe

Post   » Sun Nov 29, 2015 2:10 pm



GPIG

Post   » Sun Nov 29, 2015 4:10 pm


I agree with your Dad, Bookfan. It's ironic and pathetic that so much misery, hate and war occur in the name of religion.

I remember being young and hearing John Lennon's beautiful song Imagine for the first time and instantly loving it. But being young and in catholic school was taken back by the lyric, “and no religion too”. It had been engrained in me that was something akin to blasphemy and I wasn't old enough to understand what it was he was saying. I was confused such a beautiful message seemed to get cloudy.

I understand now it's a powerful message that many might feel offensive, but I sure know now what it was he was saying.

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NoCableisSafe

Post   » Mon Nov 30, 2015 3:08 am


Glasgow has taken in more refugees.

You guys know that terrorism and terrorists can be Parisian/British/American right?

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:07 am


We totally have our own home-grown terrorists here and a terrible number of mass killings.

And many of our white male angry terrorists use powerful easy to come by weapons.

An article addressing a recent shooting at Planned Parenthood:
http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2015/11/29/1455052/-How-ISIS-and-the-Tea-Party-Share-Common-Ground

"When the followers of both religions, Islam and Christianity, can twist their beliefs to include the killing of innocent people to further their agendas, they share common ground. "

GPIG

Post   » Mon Nov 30, 2015 12:21 pm


Yes we know. The largest terrorist attack on American soil up until 9/11 was by a 20 something yr old American who grew up in typical American suburbs.

White American men are the main profile for mass shootings in America but they are not alone because of color. The attack(s) in America that probably caused the most continuous fear again, up until 9/11 were by the Beltway Snipers, who weren’t white.

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snowflakey
E's Moriarity

Post   » Mon Nov 30, 2015 1:27 pm


Refugees are generally not committing terrorism. Tourist visas are MUCH easier to get than trying to enter a country as a refugee. Not to mention that the Paris terrorists were Belgian nationals. This anti-refugee sentiment is xenophobic, un-American, islamophobic, bigoted, and ultimately a cynical way of manipulating the populace for political gain.

We have a white man shooting up a Planned Parenthood, and the media isn't all that eager to talk about HIM as a terrorist. Yet anti-choice terrorism has been going on for decades in this country. Call it what it is. It is terrorism. We gonna put all white male Christians in a "humane" internment camp?

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snowflakey
E's Moriarity

Post   » Mon Nov 30, 2015 1:43 pm



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snowflakey
E's Moriarity

Post   » Mon Nov 30, 2015 4:07 pm



GPIG

Post   » Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:40 pm


I don't believe in internment camps either. I don't believe in camps unless you're camping.

I agree anyone who shoots up a planned parenthood has an agenda to do what a terrorist does and hence is a terrorist, did I call it something else? I didn’t mean to.

I don't think any refugees are committing terrorism. Refugees just want to come somewhere safe and flee oppression , war and hate, which I'm all for. I want them to come to my country because that's how we were born and need to continue, it's important to our core.

It seemed you think I disagree? Not sure if that's me or not?

GPIG

Post   » Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:57 pm


Oh sorry, one more thing so as to be clear about my perspective. Seems it was taken for granted. My father was white, my mother was black.

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snowflakey
E's Moriarity

Post   » Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:50 am


Thanks GPIG. Not replying to you specifically. Just to the world in general. ;-)

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jacqueline

Post   » Tue Dec 01, 2015 8:22 am


Just for the record (and I'm sure many f you would agree), it is organized religion that is a problem. Once religion became an institution, it fell prey to all the same things as any institution. "Absolute power corrupts absolutely" holds for religious power as well.

There is not a single religion that I'm aware of that condones the killing of innocent people for any reason.

Atheists are the largest "religious" group in America right now, and growing. So, I suppose, you could also argue that it's a lack of religion that has also contributed to the increase in violence and terrorism.

When I was growing up, my church was my extended family. When things were tough, my church family stepped up and helped. If something even appeared to be wrong, I could always count on someone to come up and check on me.

So many of these terrorist groups are doing what my church family did - finding young people that are having problems, and offering them family and support. The same things gangs do when they recruit on the streets.

I'm not selling religion, and I have no delusion that if we all got religious the violence would abate or end. I guess I do worry these days about how quickly we characterize and entire group of people, based on the insane actions f a few who claim t belong to that group - whether it's muslims, christians, or refugees.

All of this is soooo heartbreaking. I appreciate reading all the perspectives and opinions expressed here. Thanks to all for contributing!

GPIG

Post   » Tue Dec 01, 2015 8:44 am


Understand Snowflakey.

Well put Jaqueline. Some of the people in the organized religion of my youth have helped me at different times in my life also.

Bookfan
For the Love of Pigs

Post   » Tue Dec 01, 2015 10:33 am


"Atheists are the largest "religious" group in America right now, and growing."

????

From Pew Research Center:

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/05/7-facts-about-atheists/

7% of Americans are atheist/agnostic.

And while I don't really think you meant it this way Jacqueline,

"So, I suppose, you could also argue that it's a lack of religion that has also contributed to the increase in violence and terrorism."

there is nothing more insulting to an atheist that the implication that atheist=immoral.

I am reading that more in the context of the whole post which gives it a different slant.

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snowflakey
E's Moriarity

Post   » Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:17 am


Yeah, atheists are NOT the largest "religious group" - firstly they are not religious at all, and secondly they are not the largest, by far. Not sure where you're getting those numbers, j. I'm an atheist myself. I am also, I believe, highly moral. I'm just not moral with a belief in a divine being. ;-)

Here is a chilling and fascinating report on the Colorado Springs Planned Parenthood terrorist attack.

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jacqueline

Post   » Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:39 am


Sorry folks - I meant no offense. It was a poorly written post. I'll see if I can track my source down. I should be better about that.

You're absolutely right, and I really do agree, atheists, as a group, are NOT immoral or unethical (at least not any more than the population at large). Please accept my apologies for that mis-statement.

I guess what I was trying to convey was more broad than religion. It's a sense of community, family, neighborhood. Houses of worship were often the community gathering place, a hub of sorts.

Churches are closing their doors. Attendance is down. There are fewer and fewer places where people come together as a community any more. I do believe that a lack of connection to each other is part of what has made it easier for violence to increase.

Bookfan
For the Love of Pigs

Post   » Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:51 am


That's sort of what I figured you meant. And I do agree that the decline of communities that bind people together, religious or otherwise, leaves voids that can provide entrees to sway susceptible people to violence.

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snowflakey
E's Moriarity

Post   » Tue Dec 01, 2015 12:59 pm


Yes, it is a decline in community that can cause the trouble. Although there are some communities that *should* decline for the health of our society - the KKK is but one obvious example.

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