Hyperthyroidism

EllieMom

Post   » Fri Oct 22, 2010 3:56 pm


My Ginger had a thyroid tumor removed in September and seems to be doing very well, too. I would definitely looking into the surgery route if it is at all possible. Some, like Ginger's, are less tricky than others.

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pigjes
Cavy Comic

Post   » Sat Oct 23, 2010 4:08 am


I do not recommend using herbs, if there are meds. Herbs are far more difficult to dosage right and stable. They are a last resort if there is absolutely no other option available. I used Balm (Melissa officinalis) herbs.

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daveandtiff

Post   » Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:50 pm


Tracy, I know this thread is a bit older, but just saw that you are in Boston. Who was the doctor doing radioactive iodine trials in piggies? Am finding Angell to work with cats, but don't know of a facility that is working with piggies and would really be interested in learning more on I-131 cases

Also, how soon after you weaned Inca off tapazole did she experience thyroid storm? And did doctor confirm that this was actually what was happening with her at that moment? And that she passed of complications of thyroid storm and not potentially any other reasons?

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mmeadow
Supporter 2004-2022

Post   » Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:28 pm


daveandtiff, I suggest you message Tracy through the mailer, as I don't know how regularly she reads the forums. Click her name and then the email button.

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daveandtiff

Post   » Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:43 pm


thank you, mmeadow

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Tracy

Post   » Fri Jan 29, 2016 8:55 am


Hi Dave and Tiff. Thanks for reaching out via e-mail; I'll admit I haven't been contributing to GuineaLynx much lately, though there's lots of valuable info here.

Inca's been gone a while now, but I reread some threads, including this one: https://www.guinealynx.info/forums/viewt ... 2&start=80. Was tough to relive such a stressful period for me, but I'm glad it also prompted me to remember that Inca was happy until her final hours. They just keep living and doing their piggy thing, while we humans are scared and frustrated and trying to make the best decisions.

Anyway, looks like I tapered off the tapazole and Inca died a month later. We do think it was a thyroid storm that morning, and vets just couldn't manage it or turn things around. At some point I wrote that I wouldn't change what I did and did not do, but I do think it's important to give tapazole for life, as vets recommend. Perhaps Inca could have lived longer.

At the time, we were going to Angell Animal Hospital, and our top exotics vet was Dr. Connie Orcutt. She's not practicing there anymore, though I'm still in touch periodically. I can ask her about that trial with piggies using radioactive iodine. My thread said not many participants, so I wonder if it ever took off. I do know there's a cat expert at Angell with lots of experience in thyroid issues: Dr. Jean Duddy.

I'd also recommend Dr. Jennifer Graham, who is at Tufts out in Grafton MA. She's triple certified, including in zoology, which is great because she knows about many species and can sometimes relay/apply other cases/treatments that were similar to the current patient. A vast body of knowledge and definitely a drive to "solve the puzzle." Of course, not all of them can be solved, yet hopefully we learn a bit more from each.

Best of luck with your piggy... I'll be reading along now.

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mmeadow
Supporter 2004-2022

Post   » Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:36 am


Agreeing with Tracy's recommendation of Dr. Graham--she's amazing.

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daveandtiff

Post   » Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:48 pm


Hi Tracy,

Thanks for taking the time to respond, and I appreciate your thoughts, though this is a hard memory for you. I understand as have had some hard memories on similar things, so I appreciate you caring enough to write back. I'm sorry with how you had lost Inca and am hoping she was able to live a long, otherwise healthy and happy life (it sounds as though she was happy until her final hours as you had written, which is relieving. was similar with our boy who had a longterm mammary tumour, who incidentally Dr Orcutt had said lived the longest she had seen with a mammary tumour, 3.5yrs. she said usually it is 2-2.5yrs for piggies. felt fortunate that he was active and even nibbling at food a couple of hours before he finally passed at home naturally, at age 6.5. we were very fortunate that he was peaceful and near his brothers as usual.). Yes, Connie Orcutt and Jen Graham were the super team at Angell. We have seen both and I was in touch with Jen through yesterday about our boy. She is straight up with information and knowledgeable. You are right...she has a "solve the puzzle" personality, which is really perfect and makes her so good at what she does. Have appreciated having her in our lives. She had been the one to recommend the doctor we currently see when we moved westbound, Dr. Kilgore, and our doctor has consulted with Jen on this situation with our boy as well. I didn't realize Connie had been considering I-131 trial on piggies. I also connect with her occasionally and may ask her about this (she is retired now, as a medical writer. prior, she had moved from Angell to Putnam Veterinary in Topsfield).

I believe our doctor was mentioning Dr Jean (Angell) as we talked yesterday (possibly) as we were wondering if there is even an option with Angell to perform I-131 treatment on piggies. Seems they offer it to cats (and even dogs are omitted from the cat environment).

It doesn't seem as though anyone is aware of a piggie who has undergone radioactive iodine treatment up her, though folks here on glynx have been talking about this (had they actually received the treatment, and where?).

What caused you to believe that Inca experienced thyroid storm? Or did the doctor state this? This was the question my doctor was asking as the happened weeks after you had stopped the meds. Were there certain symptoms to suggest this? Of course, this would be my concern with starting methimazole (tapazole)...first, that our boy could experience side effects on the med, then a risk if trying to take him off it. There is someone else here on glynx who had said she had taken her pigs off methimazole eventually and they did not have this issue. So not sure what the contributing factors are.

I had wanted to be sure his blood chem and cbc were not pointing elsewhere (ie blood disorder, diabetes, etc) and that levels are within range before starting a drug which might further compromise levels. Would be good to have a whole picture so that we are making wisest choice with treatment plan and overall outcome. Unfortunately, doctor could not get enough blood for the T4 test to be run and the yellow fluid drawn from neck nodule was negative inhouse (no cells seen). So we were not able to get to having CBC/Chem Panel for this reason. Would not want him to go through more than he has to so we may be taking a chance with Methimazole soon. He was down 17g this morning from 2 days ago, where 2 days ago he was the same as a week and a half ago. He seems to be off/on with food interest due to flavour. He will search for food, but if it doesn't smell good enough, he will deny it. everything has to be uber fresh. I even questioned a little clear nasal discharge that he developed at some point after we brought home a little girl. She's had this d/c, but doctor didn't hear anything going on with lungs. Had wondered if he doesn't smell his food as well now, eats less. That's a stretch, but maybe in part is true. He was already a very picky eater, but boy, was a big eater at 1380g. He is 1122g today, which scares me.

Thank you again, and I just did start to read several of your comments at link you shared. Have rushed through this message as on way to work again, but will read thoroughly again when home. Thank you for sending this...

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mmeadow
Supporter 2004-2022

Post   » Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:58 pm


daveandtiff, I encourage you to handfeed aggressively while determining the next steps.

For my hypothyroid pig Scooby, it required about 80 grams of Critical Care per day to keep her weight stable while Dr. Orcutt slowly and cautiously increased her methimazole dose, using the cat protocol for guidance. Scooby's blood tests were inconclusive so we stopped trying them and went with her observed clinical signs. Eventually the med reached a level where she obviously felt better and therefore ate more on her own, plus presumably her metabolism slowed and so was able to keep more weight on. At that point we did continue to supplement but didn't need to do nearly as much.

Scooby's case was back in 2006-2007. At the end she was suspected of having a thyroid tumor. I hope there is newer information out there about managing this.

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Tracy

Post   » Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:07 pm


Glad you've contacted Dr. Graham, and I've heard Dr. Kilgore is great, too (though I haven't crossed paths with her myself). Dr. Orcutt wasn't considering the iodine trial; that was Dr. Duddy at Angell (doing that treatment for cats).

Is there a thread about the piggy you're worried about now? With a search, I see a bunch of threads started by you and would like to read the history of your piggy's thyroid problems. Has he been diagnosed, or your current vet is just pursuing this "path"?

I agree you shouldn't start tapazole unless there's really good reason to do so... that is, if hyperthyroid is very likely or has been shown with blood tests. Inca's symptoms were very representative of thyroid issues, plus she had a lump on her neck. We presumed hyperthyroid and treated for that, despite inconclusive T4 tests.

Also, I know your pig's weight loss is concerning, but don't panic at 1100+ grams; that's still a good weight. Just for reference, my Inca dwindled to half her ideal weight... died at 505 grams. Also, are you supplementing his normal feedings? Especially with a picky eater (as you've said), don't rely on him to eat enough. Experiment with different foods/treats and try to help him put the weight back on. Does he take syringe feedings well? I'm sure you've been trying already -- keep at it!

Honestly, I don't know what a thyroid storm looks like nor how docs attempt to manage it. Maybe someone else can chime in about that. And I don't have strong memories about what docs said; I will try to find the hospital notes from Inca's final visit.

I know that the morning Inca died, she was facing the corner of cage with breathing difficulty and foam coming out of her nose -- just horrible to see. We rushed to the ER, and they gave her oxygen and perhaps an injection of something (if I had to guess, maybe Lasix). The foam indicated too much fluid in her body, a complication from rapid heart rate I believe.

I don't remember that emergency visit well since I was very upset and in shock. I left Inca at Angell, where they were going to try everything to help her... while I went home to try to make good decisions and think more clearly. They called to say it doesn't look good and I should return; as I wrote (somewhere) I didn't arrive in time. She seemed fine/happy just the night before.

I'd love to read more about any piggies who underwent the iodine treatment. Where are those threads??

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mmeadow
Supporter 2004-2022

Post   » Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:08 pm


Here are my comments on an old thread about Tracy's Inca:

Although it's pretty clear that she was hyperthyroid per the T4 tests, Scooby was never over-active. (At her worst, she could barely stand up or bother to eat.)

A quick brain dump based on our Scooby nursing notes:

Scooby's lowest weight was around 670 grams, August of 2006. Her T4 was 12 mcg/dl, against a normal of 3.2. Scooby then started on 0.1 ml of Tapazole 1x a day. After a month, there was no change, and we doubled the daily dose to 0.2, at which we started to see a small improvement in weight. We went to 0.3/day in November and then 0.4 in December. At that point she weighed around 800 grams. We then stayed at that dose, although in retrospective should probably have continued to increase. She had one more blood test that continued to show high thyroid, which we thought was a mistake, but probably was accurate.

In May of 2007, Scooby's weight suddenly crashed (from 800 to 750 in two days); she was inert, had a fever and rapid pulse, and the vet palpated a probable thyroid node. This was the final thyroid storm.

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daveandtiff

Post   » Sat Jan 30, 2016 2:58 am


Hi Tracy and Mmeadows, thanks for all of this information on your own experiences and your advice. Have not had time online between broken work schedule and constant food prep and time with feedings, but hope to have more in a few hours.

Yes, I've been syringe feeding, though am now going to be reinstating my spreadsheet to keep track of count (we've used this in the past with our others when we've needed to know how much food and juice at given times, times of meds or probiotic, or what things worked during the session. It helped to have this to tally up the # of cc's given in 24hr period where days run into one another easily and sometimes two people were giving food or meds).

Well, unfortunately our guy is not a fan of critical care or the task of taking syringe food, though has grown more comfortable with this in a very particular way. He needs free roam on pillow on my lap with no significant physical contact in order to stay calm enough to want to eat. He seems to want to teter the edge of the pillow which is why I keep a pillow also on the floor below and why I'm sole syringe feeder and my husband is not helping with this task. He moves quickly sometimes so am having to think ahead of his every move and be preventative with either turning pillow around, blocking him from getting too close to edge or distracting him somehow. As soon as I try to reposition him or guide side of face to try to get him not to turn away while introducing syringe, he just tries to run off. He gets pretty worked up after awhile and has now a habit of getting down to the back of the chair for cooldown, potty, rest. We do that many times during session in order to regroup and rest where his breathing and heart rate are already higher and are affected when he moves around often. Usually he's taking a break every few bites or as little often as we have to so we don't run out of steam and short sell the syringe. Have been using various juice blends and various critical cares, and grind treats or other things he might like to dip the syringe tip into, though tonight carrot juice on the tip was most effective with getting him to want the next bite. Lots of tricks, but it's quite an ordeal to have our feedings, more than I've ever had with any of our others. In the end, he often uses so much energy that I wonder how much the food will help with weight gain, at least nutrition is being added. He was able to get 20cc in between 5:30-6:45p and appears we'll need to at least increased our 3 sessions a day to 4 at this time given he has lately been more picky with foods. At the midnight session, I do have to say he was very calm and went through record number of cc's before his first chair break. He did quite well.

I'm not sure that we are going to give it another try for blood in order to check T4 and/or CBC and Chem Panel. It would be better that we have this information, but not sure anyone feels they can promise a successful draw to get enough blood to be able to run tests. But am still thinking on this. Have been researching any other possible causes for his condition, ways of testing that could help shed light other than blood test (ie urine - ketones/sugar. this morning ketones were neg btw. the test strips i ordered were wrong, ended up with ketone strips, but tried using where had read that some diabetics have increased ketones). Had even wondered about testing hair for information (was reading that some minerals findings or deficiencies in hair may give more information related to thyroid, though probably only inconclusively).

Am going to finish writing this when am not falling asleep, but he had another good session a little after midnight (approx 23cc crit care, loving his juices - wheatgrass parsley blueberry, kiwi, pear, yellow bell and esp his carrot juice again). We just finished a little while ago so am going to nap while he naps. But will start writing with how we noticed any of his changes, the original reason for our doctor's visits, etc.

He originally went to doctor to check mouth where he had been off most foods last fall and was making a strange mouth motion. At that time, a tiny nodule at base of neck was detected, but not much said on it, and nothing visually abnormal seen with the teeth. He went back to eating normally and then had another bout of not eating as much a few weeks ago. We went in again to have him checked, this time with our usual doctor, and she also checked the nodule, which seemed about the same size as three months before. His weight was a concern, however, and we were worried about some squeaking while pooping, so had ultrasound to check for stones. We went back for follow up to have full body xray (which ended up not including head unfortunately) and the only other test that was able to be done was the needle aspiration of the nodule, which showed only yellow "thyroid juice" without cells (doctor said if cells seen, she would have sent to pathologist).

More when able...sorry for the broken thoughts (and the length...will try to bullet point later when awake

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