Structural Racism in the US

User avatar
snowflakey
E's Moriarity

Post   » Sun Jul 10, 2016 11:11 am


I'm sorry Wheekers and I apologize for being harsh. I don't want anyone to read my posts and feel personally guilty or attacked.

The reason I am doing this is that there are so many people like me - basically, white - who cannot see what the problem with the police is. Cannot see how simply being white makes their experience in this country much easier than that of those who are not white. Even when a white person's experience of navigating life is hard (unemployed, disabled, whatever), that identical circumstances as a person of color would be much harder.

It's sort of like that "love the sinner, hate the sin" bromide (a version of which got the Orlando thread focused on religious homophobia). "Love." Then stop. That is all that is needed.

Right now, it is appropriate to say "Police shouldn't shoot anyone except in rare, extraordinary circumstances." Then stop. None of that "he broke the law" or even "he had a gun" nonsense. It doesn't matter. When white people threaten the police with guns, they are usually not shot. The suspicion of a gun gets a black man murdered. His blackness is his death warrant. Black women too, let's not forget.

Until well-meaning white people acknowledge that blackness is the license for the police to harass, arrest, imprison, and kill, we will not move forward towards a just society. The law is applied unequally across the spectrum of "law breakers." It isn't some objective colorblind thing either. The law is an outgrowth of our racist culture, and it is applied in a racist fashion by the state via police and the courts.

How strategies for survival make POC vulnerable to police. Sure, it is "against the law" to sell loosies or bootleg CDs. When the job market is closed to you, survival takes extra-legal forms. But since when did selling loosies hurt anyone (other than the act of smoking hurts people)? The criminals that hurt our society and our world are the ones in suits, and they never do time. They never even see the courts!

User avatar
snowflakey
E's Moriarity

Post   » Sun Jul 10, 2016 11:16 am


Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "adjusted post" - I did edit one post to include a quote from a post above, and I occasionally edit to correct spelling or grammar (I guess that is what PREVIEW is for!), but I didn't change my response to you. But maybe that isn't what you mean. :-(

User avatar
Wheekers3

Post   » Sun Jul 10, 2016 11:32 am


I'm good. - not going to drag it out, you apologised, and I accept.

When the Rodney Allen King beating went down in ''93, I think...I felt so bad. You could feel the tension at my kid's school. I was hoping to never feel it to the degree I did then as I do now. I am scared for the future in so many ways.

With politics in the gutter too, I feel hatred is only being stroked. I hate it. Can I hate hatred?

GPIG

Post   » Sun Jul 10, 2016 1:48 pm


I understand Snowflakey, it's hard for everyone to understand each other’s speaking mannerisms, especially mine. I'm told it’s particularly difficult to read and understand my sarcasm.

My point was, yes being polite blah blah blah and you'll be ok, that is of course unless you're a black man, particularly a young black man. And if you have a few young black men together, geez you’ve then got a movement.

Edit: Police being infiltrated by KKK. I know that to be true in at least one case 100%. I can't speak to things I don't know of but I do know of one town where the police department majority was KKK for over roughly 50 years. It was a while ago and has stopped now but it happened. I'm told it was going on in the neighboring towns also, but I don't know that for sure. The town in question was about 7,000 populations at the end of it and there weren’t 15 black people living there. I was always worried about my mom because she did her shopping in that town; ironically she was safe because she taught in the catholic school where the police sent their kids. It was ok as long as she wasn’t a rebel rouser I suppose and my father was considered a war hero from Vietnam, so we were ok. How stupid it all was thinking back.

User avatar
snowflakey
E's Moriarity

Post   » Sun Jul 10, 2016 2:20 pm



User avatar
daveandtiff

Post   » Sun Jul 10, 2016 2:29 pm


This may be late in the show, but this topic of conversation has been hosted by a couple of radio talk show personalities here the past couple of days/nights I've been driving. I distinctly remember a comment made by one caller (sounded possibly Russian-speaking), much to Wheeker's thought, that in his country they were taught to always "remove business" (something along this line, suggesting they were taught to disable, not kill). He, rightly so, felt all too often we are taught here in the US to be ready to kill. And that is what happens quite alot of the time. The knee-jerk response to fire to rescue oneself or perceivable others comes quickly and hastily. The consequence can be (and should be) remorse for taking a life, regardless of whether or not the action was considered necessary. Even a killer's life is important. Taking a life, for those who have the heart for others, can carry a lifetime of injury within. Those who are armed absolutely should be put into practice situations routinely to be able to learn how to disarm an individual without a knee-jerk reaction ending in death, or without having an intentional killing that might have been avoidable. The bigger part of all of this are the INTENTIONS and MOTIVATIONS of the involved persons. They are not always pure, and these are exactly the individuals who should not have the right to bear arms.

User avatar
snowflakey
E's Moriarity

Post   » Sun Jul 10, 2016 4:17 pm


Speaking of the right to bear arms... here is an article that discusses how the 2nd amendment was all about preserving slavery and allowing militias in slave states to preserve their power to put down slave rebellions or capture escaped "property."

Second amendment ratified to preserve slavery

The above is a popularizing of a scholarly article by Roger Williams Law Scholar Carl Bogus (great name!!)

And here is its rebuttal:

Second amendment not for slave control

GPIG

Post   » Sun Jul 10, 2016 4:40 pm


I really admire that you post both pro and con links Snowflakey. That's important. Looking at both sides of a debate just always seemed like common sense to me.

I know none of this is funny but I just saw the mindless movie Ted 2 last night where Ted was declared "property" I laughed out loud. I never laugh out loud, hate the expression in fact.

User avatar
snowflakey
E's Moriarity

Post   » Sun Jul 10, 2016 5:04 pm


Insight into how the police treat suspects (innocent or not).

"sniper" suspect lied to during his interrogation by police.

Richard Jewel, whose life was ruined by the police after the Atlanta Olympics bombing, is another example of the kind of BS that the police visits upon its citizens.

Things are messed up.

Here is a post on a political blog I visit with lots of links to stories about, and videos, of the difference between how black citizens are treated vs white citizens are treated in their encounters with law enforcement.

User avatar
jacqueline

Post   » Sun Jul 10, 2016 5:20 pm


St. Paul Minnesota, protests held in response to Philando Castile shooting. Molotov cocktails thrown, along with other things. 21 officers injured, though none seriously.

I can't even imagine how this is all going to end. I'm convinced we just can't go back to any kind of denial any longer. But I also can't imagine what the change could be

User avatar
snowflakey
E's Moriarity

Post   » Sun Jul 10, 2016 6:00 pm


It is always disturbing and tragic when violence enters protests. :-(

Just like most perpetrators of violence, they do not speak for the movement any more than Dylan Roof speaks for white people.

User avatar
Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Sun Jul 10, 2016 6:08 pm


Did you want this in the "World Views" forum? I think everyone here has posted on that forum (if anyone objects, just post again).

User avatar
snowflakey
E's Moriarity

Post   » Sun Jul 10, 2016 6:13 pm


I'm looking online for more details, and found this CNN article that references a molotov cocktail (I'd read earlier about fireworks and rocks, but not that).

I always try to read these stories with an open mind and do a bit more research. For instance, the article mentions all these arrests as if there was violence at all the protests; this was not the case. In fact, the BLM leader in Baton Rouge was arrested for no reason; he was just livestreaming the event when the police took him into custody. In fact, it seems as if most if not all Baton Rouge arrests were similar: cops just rounding folks up, hauling them to jail and then releasing them bit by bit.

There is also a bit more information about the lone gunman in Dallas: He was sent home from Afghanistan because he was accused of sexually harassing a female soldier there, and that woman asked for protection for herself and family. He seemed like he had some serious emotional problems, had an arsenal of weapons.

User avatar
jacqueline

Post   » Sun Jul 10, 2016 6:19 pm


Snowflakey - if I might offer a small observation. And it may just be a thing with me, and not anyone else. But I find myself overwhelmed with information and don't always have the capacity to process it.

I agree that education and correct information is vital. And like I've said, you have done your homework and have given us tons of links. I find for myself that I can only digest information in small pieces, and that when facing mountains of it, my eyes glaze over.

If you had to, which one or two of the links you've already posted would you consider a MUST read? What piece would be the best foundational piece to start with?

I'll look at all the links, eventually, but a small judicious start would be easier for me.

And on another note - anyone here find their vocabulary changing, by intention? Just now, I started to write, "Gun to your head, which link would you pick", then of course thought better of it. I find myself avoiding any gun or violence words.

GPIG

Post   » Sun Jul 10, 2016 6:26 pm


What is really scary to me and I hate to be so pessimistic but if Donald Trump becomes president there will be race riots within a year in major cities.

User avatar
jacqueline

Post   » Sun Jul 10, 2016 6:28 pm


I still can not believe Trump had gotten this far, and that anyone is serious about him as president. Larry Wilmore refers to him as the "soon to be impeached future president."

GPIG

Post   » Sun Jul 10, 2016 7:15 pm


It's ridiculous but he is this close, holding up trigger finger or index finger, is that one called, and thumb closely together.

My mom was a pacifist, very patient about change in race relations, I thought too patient but not for me to judge, I didn't walk in her shoes. I remember seeing her with tears streaming down her face as Obama was inaugurated and she looked at me barely able to speak and said don't ever forget this. I of course said Ma, he's whiter than I am - shoe flying across room - but really, it was such an incredible event for her. She was from Biloxi, Mississippi and remembered real segregation, she knew what people said about her up here in white suburbia behind her back also but she didn’t have a bitter bone in her body. She kept these things to herself, that was her way and not for me to judge that either.

I saw so much in her face that day, it was all revealed. She could not, nor did she care to conceal it. It was pride, relief, hope, old memories - good and bad.

I think about these things much more lately, I haven't thought about them for a long time. I think they are on my mind because I am really beginning to believe Trump could be president and whatever progress has been made with race will take leaps backwards. I know it's not perfect but I think of the things my mom saw and lived with and how she believed we were moving forward on that winter day when Obama became president.

User avatar
snowflakey
E's Moriarity

Post   » Sun Jul 10, 2016 9:20 pm


Sure, Lynx, this can move to the other forum. I think anyone interested in participating has had a chance to see it. ;-)

Jac, if you want just one thing to read and think about, this essay, Walking while black, is a good one to start with. It is beautifully written, and describes a Jamaican man's experience walking as a child in majority-black Kingston, and then his experiences walking in New Orleans as a student, and then in NYC.

User avatar
jacqueline

Post   » Sun Jul 10, 2016 10:05 pm


Thanks Snow!

User avatar
Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Sun Jul 10, 2016 10:08 pm


It can always be moved back if there are issues.

Post Reply
68 posts