Agreed Lynx. I'm not an NRA supporter either.
To name only one reason, they sold, or gave away my personal information without permission. At the time, there could have been negative consequences, They are a selfish organization
Guns
They just won't compromise. I do believe in the right to own guns but I also think those who don't believe same have equal rights and what the American people want is what we should have, regardless of my personal feelings. I would love to see some education on both sides of the discussinon. UNfortunately this issue falls apart like so many because people can't set aside personal beliefs for the greater good.
I think you're right bpatters, they are a mouthpiece for manufactures who sell the public the notion "if you don't follow us word for word, you're not a good gun owner". You know how I feel about following :)
I think you're right bpatters, they are a mouthpiece for manufactures who sell the public the notion "if you don't follow us word for word, you're not a good gun owner". You know how I feel about following :)
The NRA was once a great organization. They ran training programs for Scouts in the responsible use and operation of firearms for hunting and sport shooting, all kinds of good, fun and wholesome stuff. I think they fell apart when Wayne Lapierre came around, maybe they were already on their way, I'm not sure. Charleton Heston didn't help any either.
When guns became part of a larger political discussion regarding protection and tieing it to the second amendment, enter racism and all kinds of bad things that politics always scare up. Guns for protection are a whole nother other. Very few citizens are equipped with the tools to protect themselves or anyone else with a firearm. THe NRA doesn't get that, doesn't want to get it, their members don't believe it, they are in denial. Everyone wants to be a badass because that's what a guy or gal with a guns is, of course. - tongue in cheek.
People admonish me saying how could I of all people not believe in the second amendment. I believe in it, how could I not, it's there. I happen to agree with it. I don't however agree with how it's been interpreted by people who can't name another amendment other than the first and second. I love how so many gun owners I meet at shows tell me how they will shoot anyone trying to get in their home, by God. I sometimes will ask if they've ever been in a gunfight. No is always the answer because I don't have to ask someone who has been, I already know. When they say no, I tell them to stop talking because they don't have a clue what they would do, what it feels like to shoot someone, what it feels like to get shot. Convenient items always missing from the asses yelling the loudest for "their gun rights"
You have the group of people that believes killing people with a gun is a great and honorable thing. It is a horrible thing, sometimes necessary but terrible, to be avoided at all cost. Their are legendary snipers in history; Hathcock, Simo Hayha, Zaytsev, Pavlichenkot. Movies and books are made of their lives and yahoo gun owners choose them as their heroes. I tell these folks they were snipers, nothing more, nothing less as far as we now and to choose a hero like Ghandi, Lincoln, Martin luther King. Stupid. But this is what the NRA has brought about with it's marketing, advertising and propaganda.
So there you have it, some of gpigs guns views, said I'd never tell them but what the heck. I've been arguing with my daughter about it lately who is just too young to understand. Means well, but can't possibly understand.
When guns became part of a larger political discussion regarding protection and tieing it to the second amendment, enter racism and all kinds of bad things that politics always scare up. Guns for protection are a whole nother other. Very few citizens are equipped with the tools to protect themselves or anyone else with a firearm. THe NRA doesn't get that, doesn't want to get it, their members don't believe it, they are in denial. Everyone wants to be a badass because that's what a guy or gal with a guns is, of course. - tongue in cheek.
People admonish me saying how could I of all people not believe in the second amendment. I believe in it, how could I not, it's there. I happen to agree with it. I don't however agree with how it's been interpreted by people who can't name another amendment other than the first and second. I love how so many gun owners I meet at shows tell me how they will shoot anyone trying to get in their home, by God. I sometimes will ask if they've ever been in a gunfight. No is always the answer because I don't have to ask someone who has been, I already know. When they say no, I tell them to stop talking because they don't have a clue what they would do, what it feels like to shoot someone, what it feels like to get shot. Convenient items always missing from the asses yelling the loudest for "their gun rights"
You have the group of people that believes killing people with a gun is a great and honorable thing. It is a horrible thing, sometimes necessary but terrible, to be avoided at all cost. Their are legendary snipers in history; Hathcock, Simo Hayha, Zaytsev, Pavlichenkot. Movies and books are made of their lives and yahoo gun owners choose them as their heroes. I tell these folks they were snipers, nothing more, nothing less as far as we now and to choose a hero like Ghandi, Lincoln, Martin luther King. Stupid. But this is what the NRA has brought about with it's marketing, advertising and propaganda.
So there you have it, some of gpigs guns views, said I'd never tell them but what the heck. I've been arguing with my daughter about it lately who is just too young to understand. Means well, but can't possibly understand.
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Lynx
- RESIST
Gun ownership and the right to own guns is mishandled by the NRA. I believe there are some rational hunting organizations out there (not NRA).
I googled this up. There seem to be alternatives.
http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/top-5-gun-rights-organizations-nra/
I googled this up. There seem to be alternatives.
http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/top-5-gun-rights-organizations-nra/
Agreed lynx, the NRA is just a runaway train in my opinion. And good links, as always.
There is an attorney from my home state, Evan Nappen, who has a law practise dedicated exclusively to gun,law. I admire his knowledge and especially his ethics. I often good naturedly spar with him regarding the NRA. He is an exceptional attorney, highly respected by peers and adversaries alike. My son is to intern with him next summer (year from now).
We have discussed the need for a nonpartisan organization to take the place of the NRA. Unfortunately, with a stature like Evan's, to publicly take on the NRA, could be a career death sentence. The NRA is that powerful, especially to anyone with political aspirations or who make their living in the legal field.
We have been friends for over 20 yeas and his ties to the NRA are extensive, he participates in the leading of groups/clubs they sponsor. THe one that causes the most friction between us is the nj personal protection inside and outside home situation (whatever rest of name is). I agree training and education is always a good thing but when weekend warrior gun range shooters start getting of the mindset they are going to protect their homes with guns I get worried. Or wose carry guns to protect themselves all the time. It is dangerous business and more often than not a shooting in the home for protection goes wrong. A wife or child dies. A guy who was drunk and went to wrong house and is on prch gets shot, a stupid thing for sure but not worthy of a death sentence
What it takes to shoot inside (and outside) in a gunfight is a ridiculous amount of training. iN SOCOM school we spent over 2000 hours shooting in kill rooms. Live fire with multiple people shooting live rounds in a small space needing to hit white index cards with small dot in center in every hiding place conceivable. Many people are killed in the rooms by accident. It is highly stressful, for good reason. I had been in the field for several years prior. What I knew afterwards compared to before, well there is no comparison. So when people think they are "training for home invasion, protection whatever they call it, they're not. They are only kidding themselves.
i believe for people to enjoy their guns hunting, shooting whatever but when organization like NRA starts supporting the "protection" angle by supporting a couple day carry education course, I think they are irresponsible and have to question their motive. THeir motive comes back to what bpaters observes, to sell more guns and support the manufacturers.
ps tell Gramps his boy went to war, changed his beliefs based on the things he saw and learned. I think that's called maturity?
There is an attorney from my home state, Evan Nappen, who has a law practise dedicated exclusively to gun,law. I admire his knowledge and especially his ethics. I often good naturedly spar with him regarding the NRA. He is an exceptional attorney, highly respected by peers and adversaries alike. My son is to intern with him next summer (year from now).
We have discussed the need for a nonpartisan organization to take the place of the NRA. Unfortunately, with a stature like Evan's, to publicly take on the NRA, could be a career death sentence. The NRA is that powerful, especially to anyone with political aspirations or who make their living in the legal field.
We have been friends for over 20 yeas and his ties to the NRA are extensive, he participates in the leading of groups/clubs they sponsor. THe one that causes the most friction between us is the nj personal protection inside and outside home situation (whatever rest of name is). I agree training and education is always a good thing but when weekend warrior gun range shooters start getting of the mindset they are going to protect their homes with guns I get worried. Or wose carry guns to protect themselves all the time. It is dangerous business and more often than not a shooting in the home for protection goes wrong. A wife or child dies. A guy who was drunk and went to wrong house and is on prch gets shot, a stupid thing for sure but not worthy of a death sentence
What it takes to shoot inside (and outside) in a gunfight is a ridiculous amount of training. iN SOCOM school we spent over 2000 hours shooting in kill rooms. Live fire with multiple people shooting live rounds in a small space needing to hit white index cards with small dot in center in every hiding place conceivable. Many people are killed in the rooms by accident. It is highly stressful, for good reason. I had been in the field for several years prior. What I knew afterwards compared to before, well there is no comparison. So when people think they are "training for home invasion, protection whatever they call it, they're not. They are only kidding themselves.
i believe for people to enjoy their guns hunting, shooting whatever but when organization like NRA starts supporting the "protection" angle by supporting a couple day carry education course, I think they are irresponsible and have to question their motive. THeir motive comes back to what bpaters observes, to sell more guns and support the manufacturers.
ps tell Gramps his boy went to war, changed his beliefs based on the things he saw and learned. I think that's called maturity?
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Lynx
- RESIST
Ooops. I did NOT read the article I posted closely enough! It is all hard line, give guns to everyone, no restrictions, guns everywhere and all the time, as deadly and powerful as can be.
I still know people who have guns who are fine with various legislation to keep guns out of the hands of crazy people and more.
The Virginia Tech shooting was devastating, here in Virginia.
I still know people who have guns who are fine with various legislation to keep guns out of the hands of crazy people and more.
The Virginia Tech shooting was devastating, here in Virginia.
Yes, really no good argument, we cannot allow everyone, all type guns for any reason. I know to many that makes me a traitor and contradicts many beliefs people hold of me....but they never asked me!
Virginia Tech was terrible as are all of them. I find another issue that some shootings seem to be more bad than others depending on economic, race etc issues. I know Virginia Tech was close to you Lynx, and you aren't someone putting importance by economic or race classifications but I think many people do. The Florida nightclub shooting was made worse by hearing the comments afterwards about gay people. I'm sure most people don't hear them because people don't find it acceptable. I tend to be misunderstood and many people think I would approve of those type comments and beliefs, so I hear them more. People die and asses think it's ok to make jokes because their sexual preference or lifestyle are different than their own. Pisses me off.
Many Issues behind the mass shootings but they are mass "shootings", common sense. I know there will be other ways for people to kill large groups of people but taking away the ability to "shoot" them would eliminate the shootings - more common sense, I think. Lack of common sense is a large problem of the NRA. And they sold my personal information, rat b_____s.
Virginia Tech was terrible as are all of them. I find another issue that some shootings seem to be more bad than others depending on economic, race etc issues. I know Virginia Tech was close to you Lynx, and you aren't someone putting importance by economic or race classifications but I think many people do. The Florida nightclub shooting was made worse by hearing the comments afterwards about gay people. I'm sure most people don't hear them because people don't find it acceptable. I tend to be misunderstood and many people think I would approve of those type comments and beliefs, so I hear them more. People die and asses think it's ok to make jokes because their sexual preference or lifestyle are different than their own. Pisses me off.
Many Issues behind the mass shootings but they are mass "shootings", common sense. I know there will be other ways for people to kill large groups of people but taking away the ability to "shoot" them would eliminate the shootings - more common sense, I think. Lack of common sense is a large problem of the NRA. And they sold my personal information, rat b_____s.
There are so many laws in place, many that are meaningless, some that could really help. It's complicated, state vs federal, on and on. Many laws people would like to see have already been written and passed, or at least, a version that might be close and that could be amended to effect some positive change. Many should/could be written, common sense again but are often blocked due to lobbying and or politicians beholding to the lobbyists.
Law enforcement is often confused. I have type 2 FFL with class 3 SOT and I get confused! I need to speak with an attorney often, who often needs to consult with another attorney. Forget about a regular patrol officer pulling over someone in a car and trying to understand, way too confusing. I have the licenses not so much to be able to sell but to still be able to keep things without breaking the law.
I am actually forced into being "a dealer", with storefront if I want to collect certain items. Kind of nutty
Law enforcement is often confused. I have type 2 FFL with class 3 SOT and I get confused! I need to speak with an attorney often, who often needs to consult with another attorney. Forget about a regular patrol officer pulling over someone in a car and trying to understand, way too confusing. I have the licenses not so much to be able to sell but to still be able to keep things without breaking the law.
I am actually forced into being "a dealer", with storefront if I want to collect certain items. Kind of nutty
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Lynx
- RESIST
In Virginia there is a law against celebratory gunfire (if someone gets hit). It seems not to have been written clearly enough but the intention was good - the parents of a child killed by a falling bullet I think wanted to alert people to the danger of just shooting in the air (you don't know where the bullet will fall).
I feel like Guns, Trump, Brexit and Scottish Independence are topics which can be described well by this Oatmeal comic
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe