Legend's Medical Thread - Not Eating

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:52 am


Don't throw out the Baxas. They have a more smooth, rounded tip than the Monojects. I like to think they're more comfortable in the mouth, especially if a pig is getting multiple meds multiple times a day.

Catheter-tip syringes are great for willing eaters. The 3cc and 6cc Monojects are perfect for willing drinkers, to supplement with Pedialyte, fruit juices, etc.

We got some 35cc catheter-tip Monojects, and they are great -- again, for willing eaters. If they're sucking it right down, great.

If you're forcefeeding, though, don't use anything larger than a 1 cc with the tip cut off.

Why? Because in forcefeeding, you have to get the syringe all the way back to the molars, and if you look at an x-ray, their heads are pretty long. That's a good distance.

Even the long catheter tips are too short to reach the molars. In forcefeeding the barrel of the syringe has to enter the mouth, and the barrel of anything bigger than a 1 cc is too big. It forces the pig's jaw and mouth too wide open, and can cause jaw damage.

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GrannyJu1
Supporter in '21

Post   » Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:24 am


Thanks for all the syringe info. I've often had trouble deciding which to use when. This will help a lot.

piggledy

Post   » Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:43 pm


Yes, thank you. I'm taking notes. I didn't know that about forcefeeding.

groundbeef

Post   » Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:08 pm


I had high hopes of reporting that they were still improving from yesterday, and that I was able to further reduce their CC. Alas, they seemed pretty down this morning and hardly ate anything through through the afternoon. Soooo frustrating after what seemed a breakthrough. They're eating a little this evening. Hopefully tomorrow will be better. We are all getting VERY tired here - pigs included.


I'm also taking notes on syringes.

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daveandtiff

Post   » Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:41 pm


Have you tried juicing non-gassy vegetation with some clean wheatgrass? Juice can be added to food to increase interest or alone for hydration (and mixed with water or pedialyte). All of ours have denied certain vegetation, but when these same rejected veggies are mixed in a juice they seem to love what they would usually deny. And recently, I had discovered our picky girl would accept juice that we have frozen, believe it or not. When we were freezing, it would stay in freezer 2-3days, thawed in fridge when needed. There is probably a stronger flavour with fresh vegetation not sitting too long in freezer. As you've mentioned, frozen items may change flavour after awhile when in there long enough. We juice fresh daily now, but will freeze when time is excessively tight.

I'll often run a couple of different mixes of vegetation through the juicer for variety, so when piggie gets bored with one blend another is available. Similar can be done with food (a couple of cups with different mixes...we use shot glasses for food and beverage). Can grind various treats in clean coffee grinder to dip syringe tip into for a nice smell. For the picky eater who is not interested in the food, will take up food into syringe, then rinse the barrel in a glass of water or juice to get the excess food off, then dip tip into something nice smelling. A palette of choices to get just that much more food in.
This photo is 6yrs old, have improvised since, but an idea
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Last edited by daveandtiff on Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

groundbeef

Post   » Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:55 pm


We haven't tried that. We have tried mixing very small amounts of apple juice in their CC (the vet really stressed "a couple of drops"). We've also mixed in larger amounts (about equal to the dry CC) of canned pumpkin, carrot baby food and squash baby food. Also tried mushing a couple of frozen raspberries in the CC.

I think we have a blender around here somewhere, so we'll try throwing their salad into it.

Is there any particular kind of juice you've been successful with?

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daveandtiff

Post   » Wed Jun 28, 2017 9:04 pm


Yes, try fresh vegetation, it may be more familiar to them since they eat this already on their own usually (perhaps jarred foods have some sort of overtone?). I mix for interest and nutrition, but one mix - sprig parsley, chard, 3 blueberry, wheatgrass (wash the wheatgrass and put inside a lettuce leaf, then wrap tightly into a ball before sticking into juicer...it helps the wheatgrass to not just spit out of the juicer), half baby carrot, bell pepper, sprig of carrot top, fennel frond or root, 1 dandelion green, 2 inch piece kale, piece of orange, small piece banana (these last two were recent add-on's, our others might not have preferred them).

There is certain vegetation that is considered diuretic (dandelion green, celery, I believe even watermelon. I have read parsley can challenge the kidney.). You can read up on that. You perhaps want to limit diuretics right now. Also, cruciferous vegetables (kale, collard, broccoli, etc) are gassy, as with some fruits. If gassy, not eating enough hay or tendency to bloat, would keep these out or very, very low.

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daveandtiff

Post   » Wed Jun 28, 2017 9:11 pm


What do they each eat individually already?

groundbeef

Post   » Wed Jun 28, 2017 9:57 pm


Before all this started, they got a plate with a big handful of green leaf lettuce, a few carrot slices, and some pieces of green bell pepper twice a day, sometimes a cucumber slice. In addition, they got a treat, usually a green bean or an extra carrot slice two or three times a day. Plus hay and pellets.

They like kale,collard greens, parsley, and carrot tops, but we try to keep those very limited.

groundbeef

Post   » Wed Jun 28, 2017 9:59 pm


They both eat pretty much the same things, although their treat preferences vary a little.

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daveandtiff

Post   » Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:15 pm


Maybe try green leaf as your base, wheatgrass, baby carrot, a carrot top, bell (yellow, red, orange may be higher in vit c, but green is close to the same. Critical Care will give Vit C as well). If you want to adventure on, maybe add something like chard, a bit of fennel (am thinking fennel is also called anise). We find ours prefers baby chard from mesclun mix box, refusing larger chard leaves, but in a juice larger is accepted). Blueberry is one of the more benign in small portion. The grass might stimulate interest, hopefully.

Cukes and beans are gassy, unfort. Apples, tomatoes and bell pepper can be, too. If you are juicing, alot of what you are getting out is water, if you are required to run water to get the rest of the vegetation juiced. I catch the vegetation remnants on a plate and (with very well-washed hands) send the remnants through the juicer a few more times, then a 1/2 cup of water or so to get rest of juice into cup.

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daveandtiff

Post   » Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:45 pm


If they like carrot tops, kale, parsley, you could potentially juice this and use to swish off excess critical care from syringe barrel and maybe just take up enough juice to fill the syringe tip in order for a mouthful of critical care to be better accepted. It is watered down juice and a smidget to get the food blend in shouldn't impact GI. Getting quantity of food is most important. The critical care contains hay which benefits GI. Grinding oxbow treats and even compressed alfalfa have been useful as a dusting over tip of syringe. Again, low actual intake, more for smell.

If they're new to syringe feeding, there's usually a learning curve and feeding becomes easier after awhile. My girl only takes syringe from right side of mouth and has to sit with her left side at my stomach, where some others have sat with back end to my stomach and take left side of mouth. They all felt comfortable on feeding pillow (human sleep pillow with blanket to their sides or over lower body for feeling of protection). Sometimes have gently placed a finger under blanket lifting front feet an inch. They all reveal their preferences. At times had put a finger to opposite side of face lightly as a guide if someone would tend to turn away, or to top of head when lifting head higher up.

Am sure hoping the experimenting will make it easier for you all. Tables turn if meal becomes acceptable

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