Urinalysis increased bilirubin / protein

Talishan
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Post   » Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:39 pm


If you could get a video of him (big if, but still), it'd be real helpful.

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daveandtiff

Post   » Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:01 am


Talishan, I've actually done that with our adopted boy who was showing certain behaviour that I needed our vet to see, when he wasn't doing it in the office. For our boy who grunts randomly, it is so very random, and he spends most of his time in his igloo to be able to get a clear action on video (he feels less bothered by the other boys by camping out under his igloo as the other two can get a bit bossy). I was thinking of setting up a situation with tunnels, additional canopies and other hidey spots to see if he would spend less time under his igloo. Maybe then I could be able to get a clearer view of what he is doing when he grunts (if I can get there in time to see what he is doing).

Talishan
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Post   » Sun Apr 26, 2015 9:48 pm


It's worth a try. He'll enjoy it very much if nothing else.

We have a lot of hides for ours (all the time) and they enjoy it.

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daveandtiff

Post   » Sun Apr 26, 2015 10:06 pm


It just occurred to me, I had used Novalsan a week ago to clean the floor that our boys use. I don't usually use this solution, typically something quite mild, but I had done this while the boys were outside enjoying fresh air and waited for the floor to dry before bringing them in. Also, as extra precaution, I had lined the floor with newspaper and then on top of these baby blankets, so that they would not touch the floor. I don't think that this could be enough to cause changes to urine or liver function (and the one who visits that side of the room the least is our boy who we are concerned about, the others spend alot of time there and act fine). Just wanted to mention still.

Talishan
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Post   » Sun Apr 26, 2015 10:22 pm


Shouldn't be a problem. Nolvasan is a veterinary disinfectant/antimicrobial (it can even be used in their mouths in very small quantities). It's good you thought of it and to mention it, though.

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daveandtiff

Post   » Sun Apr 26, 2015 10:46 pm


Thanks, Talishan. I know we were given Novalsan from one of our vets to use topically (diluted 20 parts water, 1 part Novalsan). Had bought some later, but then when I received bottle it stated 'for animal premises use only'. So are there two types of Novalsan?

Talishan
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Post   » Sun Apr 26, 2015 11:00 pm


No. There's Nolvasan (for veterinary use) and Hibiclens (for human use). The active ingredient is the same, chlorhexidine gluconate, albeit in different concentrations.

You can dilute Nolvasan to cleanse a wound; just dilute it, such as 20 parts water to 1 part Nolvasan. Use full-strength to clean the floor.

Note: it appears that the veterinary formulation has changed to chlorhexidine diacetate. Same idea, though.

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daveandtiff

Post   » Sun Apr 26, 2015 11:21 pm


Okay, good knowledge.

You know, in the past we had two situations - a mammary tumour with area of tissue that had opened, and a ruptured cyst - we needed to keep surrounding tissue clean. We did use Novalsan at one point years back when given by vet, but since we have used diluted hibiclens and/or diluted betadine. Had read hibiclens has a bit longer lasting power as an antimicrobial than betadine, but that when interchanging the two there is less chance of resistant strains of bacteria. We never had infection for our boy with the open mammary tumour (was over a few months as was hard for tissue to heal while he was laying on it, and because he was so much older), and the cyst for our other boy was also maintained and healed nicely with cleansings. Otherwise, tend to use salt water soaks as well for cleansing and wound or tissue healing.

Talishan
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Post   » Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:55 pm


That's a good approach. You can also use sterile saline (old-fashioned contact lens solution).

Chlorhex is a powerful topical antimicrobial but can be very drying. We'll use a diluted chlorhex solution, or diluted Betadine, interspersed occasionally while primarily using sterile saline.

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daveandtiff

Post   » Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:57 am


Have two large bottles of saline solution for this purpose, Talishan :) Also, sea salt handy.

He's been acting normal, monitoring for blood and sludge alternating white and dark blankets throughout the day, only about a cm sludge noticed once. Have not heard much grunting (I believe one very undertoned grunt yesterday and he was just eating when I peeked), but it is very random anyway. Going to run some urines on all of them when we get the strips.

We are using Oxbow Cavy Cuisine and KMS Hayloft TC pellets primarily, with a couple of natural treat kibbles that I use sparingly and primarily for the other boys when I do, though I have not refreshed kibbles as frequently in order to promote the hay consumption. I drop hay in 15-20 times a day anyway, so is never an issue, just they are probably relying on it a bit more. Also, I give them 3/4 tsp of crit care twice a day as a treat (notice it's lower in calcium than the kibbles). What kibble(s) has the absolute lowest calcium, but still the necessary nutrients?

Talishan
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Post   » Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:36 pm


In the US, probably Kleenmama's, but I will defer to others that have done more research.

bpatters
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Post   » Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:16 pm


KMS Hayloft has the lowest calcium, and also uses something other than calcium carbonate for the calcium source. Mine are pelletless, but KMS are the only ones I'd consider using.

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daveandtiff

Post   » Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:42 am


Thanks for that info bpatters and Talishan. Am glad we are using kms then. (KMS and Kleenmama's are the same company?)

bpatters, going pelletless, is that recommended for those with stones mostly? What are the main foods you offer? I did find a bit of sludge again under our boy and have been decreasing most calcium-rich foods. Just want to get the right amount of nutrition in with however our guys eat, and keep stools from shifting to soft.

bpatters
And got the T-shirt

Post   » Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:03 am


I took mine off pellets because my sow had stones in spite of being fed only KMS (yes, that's Kleenmama's) pellets since she came off Oxbow Performance at six months.

Daily, mine get red or green leaf lettuce, carrot, bell pepper, belgian endive, radicchio, summer squash, young green beans, and tomato. Every day that I can find some, they get corn husks and silks.

They also get a vitamin C supplement, at my vet's insistence, because one of them was losing weight and her coat looked poor. He believes in supplementation for older pigs, and they're nearly six. I also give them an Oxbow Urinary Support tablet daily -- I have no idea whether or not that helps.

I also give them Oasis Multivitamin Drops for Guinea Pigs a couple of times a week. I know we have to be careful with multivitamins, but figure a little won't hurt and may help since they're missing all the stuff that would be in pellets.

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daveandtiff

Post   » Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:56 am


Your veggies sound very sim to ours, been increasing the husks/silks since reading about silks for stones and now that they are in season here. We also give small amt of fruits. We used to give Oxbow Vit C (ground in coffee grinder then put into syringe food, bc they would not eat them alone). Client uses Hyland Vit C and they take them from hand. Have used various Oxbow tabs, but as with you, was not sure if helping, possibly (when I had talked with the veterinarian advisor with Oxbow about the Joint Support tabs, had asked what research had been done on them before marketing them. They do work to make a good product in the lab, but had not had any studies or follow-ups on actual animal who had used them (a comprehensive look at actual effect the tabs had on animals, via labs, demeanor, etc). Had you learned anything about Missing Link supplement? We use very tiny amount occasionally in their syringe food treat.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:22 pm


We knew KMS Hayloft back when it was Kleenmama's Hayloft. But they changed their name a long time ago (KMS Hayloft has been around for years!).

Talishan
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Post   » Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:56 pm


We've used the Hyland Vitamin C baby tablets your client uses, with good success.

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daveandtiff

Post   » Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:12 am


Well, back to our little boy. For reference, we have had few issues with his health, other than some sludge in urine (and urine test off at that time), an injury somehow to one leg a couple of years ago, which led us to monitor and treat beginning of bumblefoot on other feet as he was placing pressure on other feet to guard the hurt leg, all cleared up within a few weeks. Boar butt, which we have cleaned regularly over the past couple of years. Eyes tearing (doctor felt at the time not concerning). Some ear wax buildup. (If we go in for visit, will have these last two reassessed.) His interest in food/hay has always been good.

Right now I am primarily concerned about his skin and a recent urine test which showed blood in urine.

Skin - I had noticed a bit of flaking on skin of his trunk/back. Occasionally when brushing have found some hair coming loose with or without pieces of skin attached. Have been working on his skin lately and his hair has been intact since, so not sure if the earlier was just loose hair he couldn't reach while grooming. The skin looks clear, other than some tiny dry areas and occasional dandruff, and occasionally some tiny almost scab-like patches in various locations as I'm working through his hair. Skin is intact below when these patches are removed and doesn't appear to have been open prior. He doesn't scratch himself in general, but have noticed now a few times when touching certain areas on his back or lower side that he will contort to try to scratch or bite the area I touched and appear to have almost a temporary seizure. Immediately, I was worried about mites, but don't know how he could have been exposed to mites, unless at vet office, last being a couple of years ago. Had started with monistat incase any chance of fungal infection. If you think there is any chance of mites, would probably rather try ivermectin at home rather than skin scraping (if this is not always conclusive anyway). Or perhaps it is just dry skin. I can try to post photo.

Blood in urine - this was based on one test, so need to try to get another, harder to get clean urine from him. He does squeak at times while trying to remove impacted poop, so cannot be sure if any of this could point to sludge/stones as it's inconsistent. If we are to visit doctor, I think we'll have an ultrasound or xrays. I've checked penis for sludge and a little is occasionally there along with softer white material, but not often do I find sludge spots on his blankets. UTI was another concern. Took his temp and it was 99.5 two days ago. Am thinking there was possibly trace protein in urine (this one I hadn't recorded as was multitasking), so will get another urine.

Eyes - he had what appeared to be ulceration of R eye, had applied Terramycin ointment to it for a week. He was not squinting, but surface of eye was not uniformed. Thought to add it as precaution. He does still have white spot over R pupil now, but surface of eye looks more smooth. Incidentally, he's had a pale white ring around the colour of his L eye for some time. Am wondering if age-related changes or otherwise. Vision doesn't seem to be significantly (or at all) impaired.

Mobility - he has always preferred to stay in his shell (igloo) or within a hay pile, his safe places when he wanted to be away from his brother who was at times bossy. I do worry about how this has affected his joints. He does walk normally and I have right along removed the shell often to encourage him to move around. With his age, am especially focused on him moving around more, for joints, muscles, heart, moving sludge out, intestinal tract, and to keep him from sitting in pee/poop. His blankets get changed several times a day and I occasionally need to clean lower abdomen or backend.

Would you have any thoughts on the skin or urine findings? Thank you!



*

Talishan
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Post   » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:30 pm


Skin: definitely treat at home for mites.

They don't have to 'come' from anywhere -- they are present in very small numbers, and the pig's body keeps them under control, unless they flare up, much like many of the microbes, parasites and fungal stuff that the human body carries around and deals with.

Have you seen any occult blood, or just subclinical on the test strips? I'd consider an x-ray for sludge or developing stones, especially since he's male.

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daveandtiff

Post   » Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:30 pm


Okay, will have to learn on proper dosing for mite treatment for him. I'll try to get a picture of his skin/hair tonight.

I haven't seen occult blood, at least obvious from rectum or in poop, but the urine stains seemed a bit browner, which is why I decided to test urine. I did ask doctor's office today about running a hemoccult and she said she didn't know if this is done, but it could probably be ordered, would be sent out if so. I'll try to get a clean urine from him as well to have a UA run. And think the xray is a good idea since we're seeing this stuff in urine at least. When I took him in for U/S in Apr 2015, he was neg for stones at that time (that was the time I'd found a hardened piece of sludge wrapped halfway around his penis and worried something more could be happening in his bladder). He does have a gritty feel at times to the white material around his penis when I wipe it off. I usually rub it between my fingers to check, so I know he's not out of the woods. But am hopeful he's getting that stuff out regularly with pee. I need to get him moving around more to help with that.

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