Worst Guinea Pig carer in the world or the unluckiest?

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rjespicer

Post   » Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:17 pm


She used to be the most active of the bunch , especially at floor time running around like crazy for 15 -20 minutes and then chilling under a side table with the others and then maybe coming out half an hour later for another session of running around at full tilt.

After a week of the Sulfatrim and the seemingly high Metacam/Meloxicam dose she lost quite a bit of weight (Although initially had been perking up and putting weight on) and started fluffing up and spending more time in the fleece pockets of the GuineaDad Liners. That's when I also noticed her breathing issues

When she was in at the vet overnights they apparently didn't notice the breathing until I reminded her about it on the phone, I had already emailed them including a video of it and mentioned it when I dropped her off.

On the Xrays the vet showed me she pointed out what she said was quite a bit of liquid in her chest area but said it wasn't possible to determine what the cause was (without the Ultrasound, Aspiration or both) and suggested things like heart disease, Lung consolidation (although she said she could hear no signs of this in a physical examination), or said it could even be cancer. She said there was only a relatively small amount of clear lung showing and the liquid meant that they couldn't get a good view of her heart. As I said the vet said that what she was seeing in the Xrays wasn't in line with Nalas apparent physical condition (i.e. she looked and acted healthier than the X-Rays suggested). I dont hear much in the way of noise when she is breathing other than occasional clicks. She also coughs from time to time usually 10-15 minutes after meds or when she is settling down to sleep but I haven't heard her do that for about a day I think.

She still comes out to eat hay pretty regularly, especially when she hears me put new hay in. She will have a root through the vegetables that are put out but will only occasionally eat a bit of Green Chard or Pepper. I have also seen her eating pellets pretty regularly as well. She doesn't go anywhere near as crazy during floor time as she once did, but when she does come out will have a trot round and an explore before finding a quite spot to sit or lay down. She does run a little bit but not much. When I have been up in the night on a couple of occasions I have seen her out in the pen chomping on Hay.

In the pen when she is not roaming around she is usually sat in a corner fluffed up and hunched over (either under or on top of the fleece pocket) or she will lie down on her side to sleep. I would say that she is probably around 40-50% of her normal activity level.

We have heard her wheeking and I have seen her running (but not often) and she even manage a fairly impressive jump back in to the pen at one point. She has also had a little popcorn once or twice when I have been syringe feeding her on the table. She will still shove my hand out of the way fairly forcefully if she doesn't want to be petted and will even try and climb up my chest on to my shoulder. She used to be pretty skittish and would run off if we tried to pick her up but now most of the time If i pick her up when she is under the blanket she will wriggle and squeak a bit but will be fairly easy to pick up. If I try and pick her up when she is out in the pen she will run off like a shot. She used to struggle a lot when I was putting her back in the pen trying to jump but most of the time she just waits for me to set her down.

So to answer your question more concisely (sort of), based on how she was after she had appeared to recover from the URI in July and before the problem with swelling on her face that appears to have started the latest issues here are the changes I have noticed.

About 50% less active.
When she had breathing issues in June/July she used to take the Meloxicam and Sulfatrim with no issues but when she was taking them for the swelling she really resisted the Sulfatrim even when it was the same concentration and flavor as before. Loved the Meloxicam though.
Although she comes out in the pen, especially when there is activity, it is less than usual and she isn't running around as much or as fast as before.
She used to take Critical care without needing to be picked up or force fed (prior to these issues she woudl sit up on her hind legs when she heard me in the kitchen begging for some CC) but that stopped when the breathing issues appeared to start, when we first had to force her it was a struggle but now she will take it fairly easily but it takes about an hour to get half a tablespoon in to her
She is easier to pick up and put down, not as resistant but does squeak in protest.
She is more picky about vegetables (she used to chomp through everything but now will only occasionally eat Green Chard and Peppers, the vet said this might be the meds affecting the taste). She seems to eat a little slower though when she does.
I seem to be having to change the Guineadad liners more often due to a lot of pee but I assume that is the Lasix doing its thing?
She never used to sit on top of the fleece pocket on the liners but seems to be doing that more since she got ill. Chunkita has also been doing the same.
Poop is a good since and regular as far as i can tell but seems to be lighter brown than the other two's
Still cleans and grooms herself regularly
When she is out in the pen if you dont notice the chest/head movement when she breathes you would hardly notice there was a problem.
She seems to squeak a lot more than she used to when ever the other two get too close to her when she is in the fleece pocket on the liners.
Not sure if it is related but in general the other two seem to be a little less active as well especially when we do floor time, they will come out and have a run around but will generally wander back in to the pen after 20-30 minutes. This may be due to the fact that Nala tended to be the "ringleader" though when they were running around.
Eyes still seem clear and bright with no crustiness
Haven't seen any discharge from her nose either
Although she is breathing heavily I dont hear wheezing or croaking just the occasional click or chirp as she breathes or an occasional cough (will pay more attention tonight)

That's all i can think of for now I will jot down anything else I think of

Thank you!

rjespicer

Post   » Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:54 pm


Sorry that should say poop is a good size.
Couldn't edit the previous post.

With the veggies when she roots through the bowl she will often have a test bite of something but then decide she doesn't want it . We usually have chard (about the only leafy thing she will eat) plus Escarole, radicchio and red lettuce out. It does seem a little like she isn't quite as adept at chomping on the chard leaves and pepper when she does eat and has to try a bit harder to find a starting point to get munching but that may be because is not feeling great.

Also when syringe feeding her I will sometimes see a bit of a chest flex/heave as if she is burping after taking some CC. Dont know if that is relevant or not.

Just in case it is useful info she has been on the Chloramphenicol palmitate since Sept 3rd AM and the Lasix since Sept 5th PM so 21 doses of the Chloramphenicol palmitate and 16 doses of the Lasix.

rjespicer

Post   » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:17 pm


She will also eat dandelion but we have avoided giving her that. She will no longer apparently eat Escarole or Red lettuce which she used to.

When she is out in the pen she will spend most of her time eating hay, just sat by the hay pile munching away quite happily mainly on buds and the leafy bits but occasionally on stalks.

As I said she has been seen eating pellets from the bowl occasionally but the one thing I have mentioned before is that I cant recall the last time I saw any of them drink either from the bottles or the bowl We keep them topped up and fresh and their is no Vitamin C in it. I have mentioned it to the vet a few times and the first time she suggested switching from filtered water to tap water but that didn't seem to help. When I mentioned it last week she said that maybe they are getting enough water from the veggies. They appear to be peeing plenty though.

That said we have been cutting back on the veggies a bit as it had been suggested to us that we were putting too much out each day.

rjespicer

Post   » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:11 pm


Feeling a little more positive today as there was some noticeable improvement in Nala's level of activity last night. I also managed to eat and get some sleep. The vet talking about having to Euthanize her if we didn't get the ultrasound earlier on in the week put me in a bit of a funk.

She was sleeping by the hay pile when I got home but once meds and feeding were done I opened up the pen for floor time and she was quite a bit more active she came out straight away and was trotting round exploring and even had a bit of a sprint and popcorn at one point. I got some video of her breathing as well which seemed to be a little easier. I occasionally hear a bit of clicking but what I thought was clicking at one point was her chattering her teeth at me, the clicking isn't there all the time though. Haven't heard her cough for a while either.
Still getting 1.5 Tablespoons of critical care in to her each day and her weight is still holding stable, 781 yesterday and 771 the day before at the usual weighing time

Here are a couple of videos that show her breathing, there is a bit of background noise in one of them but as I said there is very little noticeable breathing noise. *edit# Ok no audio on the video using Imgur. Will see if I can load them elsewhere

https://imgur.com/1Q4wnaJ

https://imgur.com/wi8rfKR

Here are a couple of clips of her out during floor time. Unfortunately I wasn't fast enough with the camera to catch her sprinting and popcorning. But they give you a bit of an idea of her level of activity.

https://imgur.com/nfXByjG

https://imgur.com/iwv3QUI

This is what she was like at the end of July. This is what I was talking about regarding her being the more active of the 3

https://imgur.com/v12ZZJv


Hadn't seen the piggy train for some weeks but it was back last night for a while

Image

Still waiting to hear from the vet about the specialists take on the X-Ray. I hope she isn't going to push the euthanasia route again as Nala just doesn't look or act like a piggy that's ready to check out.

rjespicer

Post   » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:29 pm


Youtube links for the breathing videos as I cant edit the original post




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ItsaZoo
Supporter in 2023

Post   » Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:00 pm


It’s so difficult when pets are ill trying to figure them out. You know best what is normal and what isn’t. When Nala breathes fast, how long does it last? Is it possible to observe her without her knowing you’re there? The reason I ask is she seems alert with bright clear eyes and a healthy coat. If I didn’t know her history I would say she’s stressed. Like she is watching to see what might happen to her. She’s getting picked up, getting syringes of stuff she doesn’t really want, wrapped up in a blanket and struggling to get away. She looks like my piggy when I have to catch her, she kind of holds her breath and watches, then breathes fast getting ready to run. Could the fluid in her lungs be from aspirating when she doesn’t want the syringe? The vet should be able to figure that out. I sure hope you get some answers and things improve for both of you.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:54 pm


Wow, she looks great racing around! I see what you mean about the breathing. Refresh my memory and tell describe what the vet thinks is causing this and what he has done. He's done an xray, no? Sometimes a treatment summary on a long thread really does help people like me.

rjespicer

Post   » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:20 pm


I asked the Vet about Aspiration of Critical Care and she said that it wouldn't be that as you would hear her making a noise if it was, the same way we would cough and splutter if we got water down the wrong way when swimming (as she described it).

Nala had breathing problems in June/July indicated by coughing and abnormal breathing sounds. Successfully treated with Vibramycin and Sulfatrim twice a day for three weeks along with Meloxicam and some Vitamin C once a day for about 10 days. The video of her running around like crazy was after she had recovered from that at the end of July.

At the end of August (Around the 23rd/24th) she then had lump on her face that the vet aspirated and said contained liquid rather than pus and put her on Sulfatrim again and Meloxicam (twice a day but at a dose quite a bit higher than before two lots at 0.2cc rather than one lot at 0.23cc that she was on before, I didnt pick up on this until a while later) She started getting better and putting weight on (up to 834g with minimal Critical care at that point) but on 8/29 we switched the Sulfatrim to one that was a higher concentration but lower dose to give the same mg/kg to try and make it easier for her to take, however on the same day her weight started dropping again and her energy and activity appeared to drop slightly (we had only just started using the new Sulfatrim so I dont think there is a correlation there but cant be sure)

I took her back in on 8/31, as her weight had dropped to 779g and at that point the vet suggested taking her off of all meds for the weekend to see if she improved. The Vet checked the abscess and said it had gone down but she could still feel it so aspirated it again and got most of it out. She then suggested keeping Nala off of all meds for the weekend and seeing if she improved and then start the Chloramphenicol palmitate instead of Sulfatrim and restart the Meloxicam.

She didnt seem to improve over the weekend and on Sunday her weight had dropped again 752. I also noticed her heavy breathing at that point and a further drop in energy and activity. Her poop had also gotten really small and we were giving her between 15 and 20ml of Critical Care per day, about half a Tablespoon or less.

On Sunday 9/2 as I was preparing to stat the meds on Monday I noticed the higher Meloxicam dosage and queried it but was later told by the vet that she usually did twice a day for meloxicam and had "upped the dose". I started the new medication but only did one dose of Meloxicam per day not two.

I had been emailing the Vet pretty regularly with updates on Nala and questions and on Tuesday Morning they called to confirm the dose and also suggest that I take her in for them to look at the breathing issue but the regular vet wasnt due in until the afternoon so I would be seeing a different vet who didn't know the full history. I arranged to take her in during the afternoon when I could see the regular vet, she called me and suggested that they keep Nala overnight "for Observation"and do some X-rays the following day.

When I took her in I also took her meds and some veggies that I knew she woudl eat as she wasnt eating the same stuff she used to.

The next day the vet called to say she seemed ok and had been eating hay and veggies but when i asked her about the breathing she said she hadnt noticed that and would check on it.

When I picked her up on Wednesday Afternoon (5th) the vet showed me the X-Ray and pointed out the grey area around her lungs/chest which she said was liquid only a small area of clear lung was visible, the heart was not visible due to the liquid. She said that they couldn't tell from the X-Ray if it was Lung Consolidation or a heart issue or possibly even cancer and suggested an expensive Ultrasound or an Aspiration of the liquid or both but said their Ultrasound specialist wasn't available until the 13th. She told me to keep giving her the Chloramphenicol palmitate plus some Lasix but to stop the Meloxicam (this was when she explained about the higher dosage and didn't think it was an issue). The vet did mention tha there was no sign of the abscess on her face on the X-Ray.

I had been emailing updates to them with weights (between 757 and 788g) and how much critical care she was having (1.5 Table Spoons per day) and her activity level.

On Tuesday the vet called and said that the small improvements were good but that they were not enough to indicate a recovery and said that without an ultrasound then we should consider euthanasia due to her "quality of life", but she is still relatively active, out eating hay quite a bit and eating pellets and some veggies, she is not just sat in corner all day. She also said that they were going to have a specialist look at the Xrays and see if they had any suggestions. I am still waiting to hear from them on that but to be frank i am dreading any more calls from the vet if she is still suggesting Euthanasia

Last night Nala's activity seemed to increase and her weight was 781g

She is probably stressed, I know I am, but i think the liquid is probably the main cause although stress is probably adding to it. . The chest movements and head Bobs dont appear to be as pronounced and her breathing seems better to me but it is tough to tell. She seems to have enough energy to go for a little trot and a run without seeming to have any issues.

I think that covers most of it. Sorry for another long post

User avatar
Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:22 pm


Oh, no, no apology! It was very helpful to summarize the treatment and signs of illness. Thank you for taking the time to pull this together. I am with you on not considering euthanasia at all at this time.

If she is responding to the current meds, that is great. I think I've posted a link to the heart page. Make sure you keep it in mind in case anything changes.
www.guinealynx.info/heart.html

rjespicer

Post   » Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:05 pm


She still seems to be doing better. She appears to be a little more active again and seemed to be eating more veggies and was out exploring again yesterday. Her breathing seems a little easier again as well and less visible and her weight is still holding in the 770 to 787g (last nights weighing) range so still stable.

After doing a lot of thinking about our set up and what changes have been made over time that might lead to the various breathing issues they have all had at different times one feature that kept cropping up was the fleece pockets on the liners we have.

Since they have been spending more time in those the breathing issues increased. They hide out in them and sleep in them and pee and poop in them and even though we are spot cleaning multiple times a day and switching them out every couple of days they seem to trap the smell which doesn't seem healthy to me.

They had been sleeping in cuddle cups before in a separate covered area (Using the top of an old cage to give it some cover) but I had taken those out when I needed the cage top they were in to put Siouxsie in when she had balance issues and hadn't put it back so rather than sleeping out in those they have been sleeping pretty exclusively in the fleece pockets as we had taken out most of the other hideys as they were pretty big and there wasnt much space with the pockets now being at the end of each of the liners so we couldn't put stuff on top of them.

I had also noticed that Chunkita and Nala had recently taken to sleeping on top of the pockets as well and since they had Nala seemed to be doing better. The vet also commented that when Nala was with them overnight she seemed to improve and I had been trying to think what aspects of our set up were different and came back to the fleece pockets again.

So we have changed things around yesterday so that they don't have the pockets to sleep or hide in and put two fleece forests up (moved from the loft) one end in place of the pocket and two hideys down the other.

Will see how that works out. They dont seem to have taken to the hideys much and were sleeping outside them but under the loft last night but hopefully they will get used to it and not being under a closed in blanket with only one side open with the smell of their own pee and poop will reduce the breathing issues. Siouxsie seems particularly miffed at the loss of the pockets so I may need to think of some other items to put in there to keep her happy.

I had looked at the heart page, thank you, and will bear it in mind but I am hoping that isn't the issue.

I had expected a call from the Vet abut the specialists take on the X-Rays but didn't get one yet.


Hoping that Nala will continue to improve with the new setup

A couple of pictures of the new arrangement, I had just put one of the cuddle cups in there in place of a hidey and Nala jumped right in to it.

Image
Image

bpatters
And got the T-shirt

Post   » Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:15 pm


If you think it's the hideys, then take them ALL out. You can use fleece forests, or fleece draped across the corners of the cage, or step stools from the dollar store, or whatever gives the most ventilation. Cute ain't worth the life of a guinea pig!

rjespicer

Post   » Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:57 pm


Not the hideys but the pockets that are sewn across the end of the fleece liners we use. (Google Guineadad to see what I mean)

They are stitched to the liner along 3 sides with only one side open but if they are spending lot of time in there and peeing and pooping the smell is kind of trapped in there with them. Thinking it through the issues started around the time they started sleeping in those pockets on a regular basis.

Have switched to the set up above without the pockets (they are folded back under the liner so not accessible) and using more conventional hideys and fleece forests. I may end up putting the cuddle cup beds where the hidey are and getting some fleece to screen that end off a little so t is more like what they used to have.

They seem to be getting used to the fleece forest already and Nala seems to be continuing to improve.

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