Unsure of what happened to my pig

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Lisa12

Post   » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:01 am


Thanks!!Okay..

I wrote you..there are three.. But we keep in touch as he s not healthy yet and I am sure they ll check that out, too if it wont go away. He was 5weeks on antibiotics, with breaks.

I ll do that, for sure! I dont take things for granted.. And this vets all have a lot of references.. None of them is Young or inexperienced, but as you wrote, you have to watch out for yourself, too..and you can have all that, but results needs to be there.

I asked you cause they check and Will this week(our dog vets, not exotic, not Iries) on ultrasound-Ringo has history with blader, kidney, prostate problems. And for kidneys-they do blood tests.. His brother and sister were put to sleep cause of similar stuff, but he s active and happy, altough incontinent(we tried everything, nothing worked) so I cant see the reason for giving up..its not easy, but so what.:)

I ll went offline a little cause I have to sort RIngo s stuff as well and its getting Quite hard..i need to stop complaining online. I ll write if we found out anything new with Irie..

Lisa12

Post   » Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:11 pm


Just one more from us please.. as you mentioned the stones yourself i am getting bit more worried. I would be very grateful for an answer.

Does that tells something if he is not crying when urinating? Just when pooping or both. I checked urine many times and watch him closely ..its orange on the stand, sometimes otherwise if i wipe it off immidiatly is white/Yellow-i have him outside cage a lot so when he did it on the floor i wipe it off.

My question is: IF pig has the stones, is it even possible to not cry when urinating just when pooping.. ? Just that i know if i can help myself with that or we really need x.rays very soon... otherwise yeah he s antibiotic sensitive and hope stones free.

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Lynx
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Post   » Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:24 pm


Yes, it is possible (and perhaps likely) that pain while pooping is the greater indicator of stones. Pain while peeing might be more likely to indicate a urinary tract infection.

Lisa12

Post   » Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:23 am


He s positive!! VEt found out the baccteria in nasal discharge!!!!!wohooo!!! My brother called as i was way too nervous..
He s squeeqing less and less, but tomorrow we are going there and we Will ask(even if its better) for x-rays(stones-check-out as well)

Oh my god.. i thank you all who kept fingers crossed! He was negative first time because he was already on antibiotics! It took us two months..and his vet kept saying he must got it from Galli and i tought that too..it seems he just hadnt... i ll ask them everything... i cant belive it..
And i am grateful to them all..i know they were all trying their best! We love you all<3

And let me tell you-never give up if things are wrong-never..how many times they mentioned alergies i was just canceling them as crazy.. all thoose silly discussions we had.. but I dont care..seein.. Jah bless & love!!

THank you all million times, Lynx and rjespicer who helped me through our crisis..

Lisa12

Post   » Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:25 am


He will got under skin injections.. on 3 days..

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:55 am


Glad they finally found the bacteria. Please tell us what antibiotic they will be administering and what bacteria they found.

Make sure it is not on the list of dangerous antibiotics:
www.guinealynx.info/dangerous_medications.html

rjespicer

Post   » Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:53 pm


That is Good news.

I am glad they finally found what was causing the problems and hope that he makes a speedy recovery now he is getting the right treatment.

Our vet ran several tests on our girls a while back but they came back negative but they were also on Antibiotics already at the time.

I look forward to seeing some pictures of a happy and healthy Irie.

Lisa12

Post   » Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:24 pm


Thank you both so much!!

I read a link...I am not fan of antibiotics of any kind..i hate it.. Actually Lee spend week on Enroxill cause we took him(and i was so sorry) to ordinary vet and he said he s having cold(that was not even the case!!)he had malocclusion that was later treated by the vet Irie is going to now, very succesfully. Luckily nothing was wrong with him after seven days of this shit antibiotic, but i bet it didnt do him no favours..

Irie ll get injection..the antibiotic is not for oral use. I dont know yet which one is it. Vet suggested we inject him at home that he doesnt have to come to vet all the time .. but we ll see about that she said if we could do it alone. I think because anagram was done-there is not much we can do about it-cause it just shows which antibiotic is right.. I ll ask about it, but i think cause of their experience they wouldnt give him something that is not for pigs..they re dealing with pigs all the time and rabbits, hamsters, turtles etc. exotic pets only.

I ll try to post some photos, yeah, i need to learn..later.:) He s cool pig..long haired..fiesty but small boy!

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Lynx
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Post   » Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:04 pm


Make sure it is not on the dangerous medications page.

Lisa12

Post   » Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:47 am


I have some freaking bad news, now..
We were at vets.. And as I said there are three..the one who was working today is very very experienced with stones..he said if i want the x-ray i should keep Irie with him and return to get him..we did that.. x-rays were from two sides-he is stones free.

The other thing is Irie is positive on bordatella:,( He must have certainly got it from Ringo as Lynx said or..maybe some other dog..all my friends have dogs..and i was even agility coach myself and i regular visit dog clinic now as Ringo is older.. :(

Vet said its much more dangerous for pigs than for rabbits. He said another three weeks of antibiotic and if he ll get worse to call them right away..and to call them after week on it.

Treatment was like that.
7.9. he started hopping after Galli died.. he got Marbocyl for a week..than it was better
14.9. he started getting nasal discharge..and when he was sneezing he had discharge..this was alarming.. he got
trimethoprim sulfa that he tookreally bad.. so he only took it once a day instead of twice-no reaction..he than got it twice with Reglan-still the same. At that time they took his nasal discharge for research came back positive for fungus only.
Than abou 14 days later he got four sulfamethoxazole trimethoprim injections..he reacted but way to slow..(both were prescribed due to baccteria found in Gallis discharge).
He started azitromcyn as I wrote..he reacted..really..little less discharge.. little less sneezing...but it came back..
Another bacterial research we were on our kneese as i was writing that.
13.11- Marbocyl (oral ) 0, 1ml for another three weeks.. another vet wanted try antibiotic that he didnt got before..but today that one who was working decided for Marbocyl..
All three showed reaction on bordatella.. But Irie cant shake it off still...:( Cause otherwise non should be present and it is..it can be virus also..he said.. he can hardly confirm anything..but he ll need to stay on pills as long as he is not healthy.
He showed no reactions on Marbocyl(no pooping problems), so he could have make it through three weeks..

If not they ll try else as that was originally(maybe betteR), but i dont know plan. Cause they re all trying to help. And all have experience. Obviously other antibiotic would be more agressive and i was afraid how Irie Will even take all this as it confirmed he is stones free..obviously belly still hurts him slightly..oh god.:(..

What can i say..thanks..and.. i ll call them..and i ll bring him in if he still Will not get better..and he Will be on vitamin c and a lot of vegetables(Irie is so small for male-he weights only 800g-which is too little and i want him get better and fatter)-as you say stones i didnt want to gave him so much vegetables but now..

Now they know..what more antibiotic he can try and what he has.. and.. thats it.. so another month on various antibiotics. I missed two days of collegue cause of him, really, but i dont care..and i am glad he is now on the table as Ringo is all over the floor..and Ziggy is not allowed in the room now..and i ll give Ringo also medicine for worms and shit..cause..they re just outside and everywhere..

If anybody have experiences with marbocyl(Marbofloxacin), please write somthing...

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Lynx
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Post   » Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:49 am


That you are giving vitamin C is good.

I did some looking around for information online concerning bordetella.

The proposal for developing a vaccine is strong. Guinea pigs can be carriers but not be symptomatic. It appears antibiotics (oral and/or nebulized) can control some of the signs but seldom get rid of the illness. Your other pets can be carriers (I think we discussed this previously). Supposedly, most common disinfectants (like bleach diluted in water) will kill this bacteria.

Bordetella bronchiseptica. Vaccines in Pet Guinea Pigs? A Review of the Literature
Gallego M*
https://symbiosisonlinepublishing.com/veterinary-sciences/veterinary-sciences30.php

The short article is worth reading for more details about Bordetella bronchiseptica.
Pathogeny
Bordetella bronchiseptica. (Bb) is a gram-negative rod that has tropism for the ciliated respiratory epithelium. Infected pet guinea pigs can eliminate the bacteria, become asymptomatic carriers or develop the disease. The pet guinea pigs that develop the disease usually are attended at the veterinary clinic showing nasal and ocular discharge, respiratory sounds and dyspnea; the inappetence and lethargy indicate a poor prognosis. The diagnosis and treatment is based on deep nasal culture and antibiogram. Guinea pigs that have contact with the diseased guinea pig should be separated and occurrence of clinical signs should be [monitored] at least until the diseased guinea pig has been cured. It is good practice to perform x-rays of the head and chest of the guinea pigs that are in contact with the diseased ones because a subclinical or early-stage disease can be detected [1-3].
Disease caused by Bb in pet guinea pigs is mostly a poor[ly] understood disease because what is known of the disease is mostly by studies conducted in laboratory guinea pigs, and not in pet guinea pigs [1-3].
Treatment
Various treatment protocols have been proposed in pet guinea pigs based on support therapy, systemic antibiotherapy (best based on bacterial culture and sensitivity testing) and chamber nebulization with antibiotic but effectiveness of these treatments have not been proven [1-3].
And from this research guide:
Infectious Agent Sheet: Bordetella bronchiseptica
https://www.criver.com/sites/default/files/resources/Infecti ... iseptica.pdf
Treatment of animals with antimicrobials may serve to treat illness, but rarely, if ever, resolves the carrier state, nor will antibiotic treatment eliminate bacteria from the bedding or cage surfaces.
And from Merck Veterinary Manual:
https://www.merckvetmanual.com/exotic-and-laboratory-animals/rodents/guinea-pigs
Rabbits may harbor B bronchiseptica in their respiratory tracts without developing disease. However, this organism is an aggressive pathogen in guinea pigs, causing pneumonia, conjunctivitis, otitis media, abortions, and stillbirths. The clinical signs include anorexia, inappetence, nasal and ocular discharge, dyspnea, and often sudden death (this could also include S pneumoniae and S equi zooepidemicus). Rabbits and guinea pigs should not be housed together as pets. Treatment is ciprofloxacin (10–20 mg/kg, PO, bid). B bronchiseptica possesses a β-lactamase and is resistant to many penicillins and cephalosporins and mostly resistant to trimethoprim-sulfamethoxazole. Most isolates are sensitive to doxycycline (2.5–5 mg/kg, PO, bid) and fluoroquinolones (marbofloxacin, 4 mg/kg/day, PO; ciprofloxacin, 10–20 mg/kg, PO, bid; enrofloxacin, 5–10 mg/kg, PO, bid for 14 days).
Note: penicillins and cephalosporins are deadly to guinea pigs so that they don't even work on Bb is a good thing (vets should never use them anyway).

After looking this over, it is worth mentioning that sometimes pulse therapy is used for guinea pigs. I don't know if this would be a good choice for this disease but it has been used in, say, UTIs. What is done is that, say, once a week a somewhat higher dose of the chosen antibiotic is administered to knock down bacterial growth. If you can get this under control, you could ask your vets if this would make any sense for long-term control of the disease.

Lisa12

Post   » Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:53 pm


Thank you so much I ll read and research everything. I dont know exactly which type is it, but they say yeah that is it..so it must be bronchiseptica.

I clean cage on every second day like moneday, wednesday, friday, etc. We Will disinfect everything..including the floor! And as Ringo sometimes have trouble walking we have big carpet in the room and Irie s walking there too..and that is just not good, so..we ll change it very soon..

I have to read your meal plans i found, for ideas what vegetables to add so he ll have healthy and vitamin full meals. Luckily he eats a lot of hay so with bene bac he poops sort of normal than and fresh vegetables dont additinaly disturbes him.

I Will ask them for sure..they are looking for Irie to be completely free of it and i am happy cause that is how its suppose to be. He said he should be okay, already-thats the spirit.. I am glad he checked out for the stones-so at least i am not worried..cause that now would be the end ..

Now they have written all medications and antibiotics that kills this so.. if this one Will not working i ll ask for injections..but i hope it Will

Thanks again!! Irie is resting and relaxing..he was runing around like crazy and eating salad before( i am glad that he is active that is damn god sign..if he can come up to 900g at least..that would be brilliant..)now he s tired of very long day for him...:)

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Lynx
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Post   » Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:27 pm


I would stick with oral antibiotics if possible - unless you are going to try a nebulizer (these are inhaled antibiotics - gentomycin is sometimes given).

Lisa12

Post   » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:19 am


Thanks..i hope we Will able to do this..cause he ll have to react and get better.

The reason that our vet gave him bactrim injections was cause I came in(and i dont do this things, i swear!)crying like Irie is not better, i cant live without him(i have no idea what he tought, but he really wanted the best for Irie) and he look at us and he knew we just lost our dear Galli and are so upset and he said..we ll cure him and decided what he decided.. but at that time there was still hypotesis that Galli infected Irie..now as its proven that Ringo infected Irie if anyone or Ziggy as you said..its different story. Ringo s vet already know he s my best friend for more than half of my life-i didnt have to even said somethin..ever. He knows where we stand and that we better dont fall, even now..thats why he s always offering what all we ll do..

I ll look up to your advice as always..injections helped him a little bit..and azitromcyn did too.. but it returned during to weeks off antibiotics.. We ll see.. but you are on point..i cant belive you predicted things the way you did.. and when i first read it(the link) i was like no-please-that cant be true..i read that someones six pigs didnt make it..luckily Irie was treated immidatly-even if antibiotics didnt shake it off..at least it made him better. With benebac he s not crying all that much..cause god only knows(and his vets, haha:)) how many weeks of antibiotics he has to take still..

I ll change his water bottle every two weeks for new ones..thanks and i hope he ll be as active as he is now.. :)

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Lynx
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Post   » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:57 am


Sometimes injections are given to jump start recovery. But if you have a choice for long term antibiotic administration and there are no compelling or strong reasons not to do so (severe reaction to an oral antibiotic), generally oral is better and easier for the pet caretaker to administer.

I wish you the best.

Lisa12

Post   » Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:51 am


Thanks for best wishes:)
HEre we are again...Irie has discharge still-quite a lot.. but i was thinking what if we give him chamomile tea..? I am looking for home remedies as well. No suggar-normal temperature. I know it can open your nasal blockage or whatever is called.

He s taking antibiotic and has problems again.. luckily after a bit critical care and tons of bene bac he started pooping again normal-without additional medicine.

As this vet was not present at tuesday:( who wanted to try another antibiotic i think i am calling her tomorrow.. and than next moneday hopefully we ll go get injections if there Will be problems still present.

I am scared for his body how he ll take this, but so far so good..its rough diagnosis. At least he doesnt need no further diagnostics and staying at clinic, cause he was so fed up of it+ that he wont get any additional stuff from other animals, altough i keep him away from them in waiting room..

And question number two. We re planing to turn my room around today-clean everything and stuff..but you say disinfectans-if i clean cage with spitaderm(chemichal desifectant it would kill bacteria but he bites the cage as he wants food..that it wont be something wrong with him.. what if we do it with Schnaps or vinegar or this wont be as affective?

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Lynx
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Post   » Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:10 am


Any antibacterial cleaner, including diluted bleach, you can wash, let sit, then rinse off and let dry. There should be no problematic residue that way.

I don't know anyone who has given chamomile tea to guinea pigs. It probably would not harm them.

Lisa12

Post   » Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:31 am


Thank you! We ll do it!!
He s not healthy still, but you warned me and vets do that it wont be alright quickly as its been going on for a while now..
Anyway, he s very lively and is shouting for food and the fattening plan its working-he s 850g, now.. up to 1200g..he s little like me so its really cool to see little pig with such a big belly, hehe:)

Lisa12

Post   » Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:31 am


I mean small, not little..my english..

Lisa12

Post   » Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:45 pm


Irie is feeling Quite good this after noon-no sneezing..:) If it would only be better..

We are running out of bene bac and its not availible anymore in our countrey..i got blue and white and tubes.
Now I am planing to order from Germany, but they ve got different thing https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Bird-Bene-Bac-Gel-4-Tuben-a-1g-4 ... a:rk:12:pf:0

is that okay, too? I need it quick so I would rather not order from USA, cause it would mean long waiting..

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