Drooling blackish liquid

ChunkyPiggies

Post   » Thu Mar 18, 2004 7:34 pm


I can get to Dr Lyon on a day that you-know-who isnt there. See if he can take a quick peak. He's not the GP guru but he sure knows his teeth.

Evangeline

Post   » Thu Mar 18, 2004 7:39 pm


Chary-
I guess it depends on how serious the URI is. Of course, as you already know it, putting a pig with a URI under is less than ideal, but if he can't eat, that's less than ideal, too. So it's your call, but I think I would give him a few days to get a little better (handfeed like crazy and do subcues) and then have his teeth trimmed. Of course, it depends on how bad the tethh thing is.

Charybdis

Post   » Thu Mar 18, 2004 7:45 pm


I don't think the teeth are that bad, but then again, I'm not so terribly sure that she knows. The URI I think is what is causing him not to eat. He sounded very snuffly after they brought him back.

I also think I should stick with the Baytril. Bactrim for a URI doesn't sound right to me.

CP, he needs full dentals, will Dr. Lyon do that without bloodwork? Because I'm not hauling him all the way up there for another ordeal.

Evangeline

Post   » Thu Mar 18, 2004 7:50 pm


Bactrim works very well on URIs, but it's up to you. However, with my pigs, Baytril has caused more loss of appetite than Bactrim. I rarely use Baytril at all. Bactrim and Chloramphenicol are my two first choices.

Charybdis

Post   » Thu Mar 18, 2004 8:08 pm


Ok Bactrim. I am trying to get some chlor soon for both Wither and Panda.

Wonder if being blind affected his ability to find the food.

Evangeline

Post   » Thu Mar 18, 2004 8:16 pm


Pigs can't see shit to start with, Chary. Being blind has very little effect on them, from what I've been told by people who have blind pigs. Pinta's Taffeta is diabetic and went blind a couple years ago. You just can't tell from just watching her.

Charybdis

Post   » Thu Mar 18, 2004 8:19 pm


You know, I don't think that diagnosis is correct.

I put him in his pigloo and he cleaned himself then sat there. I leaned in and placed my finger straight out about 6 inches from his face. He crept forward and smelled it. Then I took a piece of romaine and did the same thing. He walked right out and took it.

I don't think he is blind. It has to be wrong. But why else wouldn't his pupils retract from light?

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salana
GL is Just Peachy

Post   » Thu Mar 18, 2004 8:19 pm


Einstein has been able to find food since he was about two days old. He used to hang out in the hidey house until Suzi pulled herself up to eat out of the hayrack, then run over and mob her nipple. He couldn't see her, he couldn't hear her, but he could smell the milk or something like that.

Your pig probably runs around the vegetables to figure out how much he has or something.

Your finger and romaine lettuce smell, especially at six inches.

Charybdis

Post   » Thu Mar 18, 2004 8:22 pm


Ok.

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Serena
It started with Louie...

Post   » Thu Mar 18, 2004 9:16 pm


I'm sorry to hear about your little guy. I hope Witherspoon gets better soon.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Thu Mar 18, 2004 9:43 pm


Ironically, I could put things in front of my pigs' faces, drop them and they seemed not to be able to see where they were -- but I knew they all had vision. A pig that is blind has a bloodless eye. Shine a light in. Don't worry about retraction, just look to see if you can see any red (as in night shining).

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salana
GL is Just Peachy

Post   » Thu Mar 18, 2004 9:48 pm


A pig that is blind has a bloodless eye.

Is that true in all cases of blindness? I mean, it's true in Einstein's, but I would think a pig with, for instance, nerve damage to the optic nerve, would still have all the machinery of the eye working fine and reflecting red.

kleenmama
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Thu Mar 18, 2004 9:50 pm


Chary, try this. It is by no means foolproof but it is an indication of root elongation.
Run your finger under his bottom jawbone, from his mouth back to his jaw hinge. Angel had root elongation and she had 2 bumps on each side where the root from the back molar had penetrated the jawbone. Use another pig for comparison if you need to.
Also, each time Angel had her teeth worked on, her right eye would water. That was because the upper root had penetrated the eye socket.
Witherspoons might not have these bumps, pigs can have root elongation that is not as severe as Angel's were.
It's just a thought. I don't think without the rads you will really know. I'm so sorry you are having trouble with him.

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Becky

Post   » Thu Mar 18, 2004 11:17 pm


Chary, which pig did I move the jaw back and forth? Was that Witherspoon? I'm no expert, but whichever pig that was had a jaw that felt clicky (for lack of a better word).

Sorry your guy is poorly again.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Thu Mar 18, 2004 11:19 pm


Salana, yes, doubtlessly there are other causes of blindness. This is the only one I know about.

piggypie

Post   » Fri Mar 19, 2004 1:02 am


But wouldnt' the eye start to rot from lack of blood supply?

That seems very bizarre that they can have a bloodless eye but it doesn't kill them.

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Paravati
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Fri Mar 19, 2004 1:35 am


Rosie is blind, but does not have a bloodless eye that we know of. The outer edges of his eyes "look" fine, but the pupil and the exterior surface right in the middle have died. His pupils do not retract when you shine a light in them, but his eyes tear up and secrete cleaning fluid, etc. so the rest of their function works fine.

He will know you're coming with veggies, raise up and sniff the air, and sometimes will even walk right past stuff unless you shove it right in front of his face. He will turn circles around and around something until you poke him with it. Then he settles down to eat. I don't think he can smell all that great, either.

Chary, I have used both Bactrim and Baytril on URIs. It all depends on what the bug is. Chloramphenicol, we've only used once with Tigger's ear infection/pneumonia, so I can't say "Yeah, that works great for all URIs" or anything. It did penetrate pus. Tigger also got Lasix and O2 because he was so congested he was having mini-seizures from lack of oxygen. Perhaps you can get some Lasix for Witherspoon to relieve some of his congestion? If you do subcues, won't that counteract any dehydration?

Charybdis

Post   » Fri Mar 19, 2004 2:06 am


Thanks, Para. I'm giving Pedialyte now and will do SQ as needed. I have Lasix but really, he doesn't seem that bad--the snuffling went away and all I hear is a mild click. I will switch to Bactrim.

Becky, that was Bea. Wither is the fluffy white Texel in the kitchen.

KM, his right eye is watering and his head is tilting to the right. That's exactly what has me concerned, along with the scissor bite.

My plan of action is to bulk him up over the weekend with Critical Care and fluids and give him ABs. Then on Monday I will take him to my regular vet for skull rads and a molar planing.

Depending on what the skull rads show, I can take him back to this other clinic and insist on dental rads despite having no bloodwork. Either the skull rads or the dental x rays can be sent around for second opinions.

I don't want to have to have him sedated twice, but my vet doesn't do rodent dental x rays and this other vet--I don't trust her to plane the teeth. A fine mess. If the right vet had the right equipment, this wouldn't be such a problem.

Or does anyone think I should take him in immediately for the molar trim or the dental rads?

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Paravati
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Fri Mar 19, 2004 2:25 am


No, I would go with your gut feeling (it's also mine) to handfeed, give him fluids, and try to get some strength back into him since the stress of today before you go and stress him out again. Do you have any powdered B12? You could add some to his CC and give a tad more energy. It might help give him an appetite, too.

kleenmama
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Fri Mar 19, 2004 11:41 am


Chary, did you feel for the bumps along the lower jaw? I felt them on Angel, but on no other pigs I have. They are pretty prominent if it's gotten that far.

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