horse lice

User avatar
lisam

Post   » Fri Jan 04, 2002 8:40 pm


Sorry, not about pigs.

My horses are infested with lice. I can´t use the usual horse lice powder on them because most are pregnant. Horses can have two different kinds of lice, biting or chewing which feed on skin cells and sebaceous secretions, and sucking lice which feed on blood.

I worm my horses with ivermectin. Now, shouldn´t that take care of the sucking lice? And would a good fly spray with pyrethrin take care of the biting ones? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I wonder how far apart I should do the two treatments? I suppose I should be talking to my vet about this.
Last edited by lisam on Fri Jan 04, 2002 11:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Fri Jan 04, 2002 10:25 pm


I´m pretty sure ivermectin is even safe on pregnant horses (use the search feature for the Guinea Lynx med pages at the bottom of each page (in the footer) and stick in horse and ivermectin. I have some FDA documents on the site that will probably verify that. (I found this document:
http://guinealynx.info/guinealynx/NADA140-439.html
if you search for the word "pregnant" you will turn up info stating it is safe in pregnant horses)

I would ask your vet about using ivermectin topically. It´s a common route and should take care of any type of lice used that way.
Last edited by Lynx on Fri Jan 04, 2002 10:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Josephine
Little Jo Wheek

Post   » Fri Jan 04, 2002 11:14 pm


Ivermectin would be my first stab at it. Too bad they don´t make Advantage for horses!

User avatar
lisam

Post   » Fri Jan 04, 2002 11:41 pm


I wish they did have something you could drop on (like advantage) for lice. There was a new product on the market last year called Freedom Spot On, it is a drop-on fly repellent. Too bad it doesn´t actually kill the little bugs.

I really hate using fly spray, I hate to use any kind of insecticide anywhere on my place. Most of what I use is natural fly repellent, you know, herbal stuff. Unfortunately, none of it is strong enough to kill anything. So it would be great if I could use ivermectin topically.

Evangeline

Post   » Tue Jan 08, 2002 4:14 pm


I don´t see why you couldn´t use Ivermectin topically. I always treated pregnant and nursing mares, as it is proven safe. You don´t?

If I´m not mistaken, the oral dosage is the same, whether it´s a guinea pig or a horse. (Lynx???) It´s just proportions that are different. Going by that, I´d say the topical dosage is the same too. Why not try it?

I´d stay away from sprays and powders, though.

User avatar
Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Tue Jan 08, 2002 5:33 pm


Yes, the same 0.2 mg/kg and I don´t know why it couldn´t be used topically. Might even be safer. Oh, the topical dose is 0.5 mg/kg. Check the ivermectin page for more links to fed documents on topical use.

User avatar
lisam

Post   » Tue Jan 08, 2002 7:27 pm


I worm regularly with ivermectin paste wormer every other month, to all the horses, even the pregnant mares. It is an off label use for lice, however, and most vets seem to think that it doesn´t really do any good. It would only get the bloodsucking lice, who are actually sucking blood at the time the ivermectin is in the system. At least that is what the vet says.

But I am very interested in trying it topically. Can someone do the math for me, and figure out how much I would need to use on a 350 lb horse? And I suppose I would probably buy the ivomec?

Evangeline

Post   » Tue Jan 08, 2002 8:18 pm


A 350lbs horse? Oh, Lisam, I´m rolling on the floor, here!

User avatar
Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Tue Jan 08, 2002 11:03 pm


350/2.2=159kilos
at 0.5mg/kg that would come to 79mg of ivermectin.

Go to the feed store and get the topical kind (they call it "Pour-On"). I think it is diluted to 5mg/ml so it is weaker and you pour more on the horse rather than using the injectable (note: it´s all the same -- just more dilutant in the pour-on variety).

It is applied in a line down the animals back and it will work on lice where the oral may not. You might have noticed that in the reference info on the ivermectin page.

And to get that 79mg in the pour-on strength, I guess that´s about 16cc (79/5=~16)

Run through the numbers yourself so you understand everything thoroughly. Read the guineapig dosing information on the ivermectin page for a clear explanation.

User avatar
lisam

Post   » Wed Jan 09, 2002 12:31 am


Thanks Lynx.

Evangeline, are you laughing at my little horses? At least when a miniature steps on your foot, it hurts a lot less!

kleenmama
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Wed Jan 09, 2002 1:01 am


Lisam, let her laugh! She has never met them in person. They are adorable! All the attitude (or more so!) of the big guys, but a whole lot less to squash you. I love your little horses.

kleenmama
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Wed Jan 09, 2002 1:04 am


Hey! I had one more thought. Advantage for guineas is off label, as are most of these things we use. If it is safe for dogs, cats, pigs, rats, etc, why couldn´t you dose for a horse? For example, get the 50-100 lbs dog size, and use 3 1/2- 4 vials. Right? Maybe sometime try it on a non pregnant one, although I understand it doesn´t hurt pregnant piggies. Just a thought....

User avatar
lisam

Post   » Thu Jan 31, 2002 4:48 pm


I talked to my horse vet today, and she gave me the go-ahead to try the ivermectin topically on my horses. She couldn´t remember ever reading or hearing about anyone using it that way before, so maybe I will be the first! Although people do with cattle, don´t they? At any rate, next time I go to the feed store I will be getting the Ivomec (Pour on if they have it).

User avatar
lisam

Post   » Mon Feb 04, 2002 11:32 am


Lynx, they didn´t have Ivomec Pour on at the feed store, only the Ivomec Drench for Sheep. I bought it anyway, but it is .08% and I am not sure, now, of the dosage. Should I take it back and try for the Pour on at another feed store, or will this work too? Boy, this stuff is expensive. But if it can get rid of the lice it is worth it.

If you can show me the math for how much to use per Kilo, I should be able to figure out each horse.

User avatar
Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Mon Feb 04, 2002 8:42 pm


That stuff should work just fine. It is slightly more diluted than the typical pour-on, but it is ivermectin just the same.

You need the weight of your animal in kilos. The pour-on dose is 0.5 mg/kg. The sheep drench you bought I think is .8mg/ml. So the idea is to figure out what the total dose is for the weight of horse you have and then determine what volume of drench will provide that dose.

It is poured in a line down the back -- head to tail. Since it is more diluted, your horse may be kind of oily but it will also serve to spread the ivermectin better.

If you can get the weight of your horse, we can figure it out. I´ll post it here so anyone can catch any math errors.

User avatar
lisam

Post   » Mon Feb 04, 2002 11:11 pm


Thanks. One is 750 lbs, one is 600lbs, the other two are between 300 and 350 lbs.

User avatar
Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Mon Feb 04, 2002 11:42 pm


750 lb = 341 k @ 0.5 mg/kg dose is 170.5 mg
600 lb = 273 k @ 0.5 mg/kg dose is 136.5 mg
300 lb = 136 k @ 0.5 mg/kg dose is 68 mg
350 lb = 159 k @ 0.5 mg/kg dose is 79.5 mg

(Check your bottle -- I think it should be .8mg/ml -- I don´t have one to look at, but I think this is the rate)

To get 170.5mg you need to dose topically with 213 cc of the drench
To get 136.5 mg you need to dose topically with 171 cc of the drench
To get 68 mg you need to dose topically with 85 cc of the drench
To get 79.5 mg, you need to dose with 99 cc of the drench

If this looks too messy, you can return it and get the pour on. Since it would have 5mg/ml [1 cc = 1 ml], you would be applying much less. I think the price would be comparable but the pour-on just might be a bit cheaper as there isn´t as much dilutant as was used for the sheep drench. The other thing you could do if you wanted is to get the injectable that has 10mg/ml and dilute it 50/50 with propylene glycol which would essentially give you the proportions of the pour-on.

If you have any questions, you could read the ivermectin page to understand it more thoroughly.

User avatar
lisam

Post   » Tue Feb 05, 2002 9:49 am


Thanks again. I´ve read the label several times, and it says 0.08%. I find it interesting that the inert ingredients are never listed on horse products.

I may keep this and use it for my pigs (although I wonder if I would ever use up 960 ml by the expiration date of may 2006) and get the Pour on for the horses.

User avatar
Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Tue Feb 05, 2002 12:34 pm


To give you some idea of cost for the injectable, it usually comes in 50ml bottles and costs about $45 (give or take -- I think I´ve seen generic for $35 -- I would get online and look). This is a 1% solution and each 10ml has 10 mg ivermectin. The whole bottle has 500 mg ivermectin which would treat @ 0.2 mg/kg, 2500 kilos of animal (5,500 pounds). Used topically @ 0.5 mg/kg this bottle would treat 1000 kilos of animal (2,200 pounds).

The bottle you got (sheep drench) would have 768 mg of ivermectin and will treat 1536 kilos of animal topically @ 0.5mg/kg.

You have under a thousand kilos of horse -- but they may need two treatments to kill the eggs so you may actually need more ivermectin (if my figures are correct).

User avatar
LynnK

Post   » Tue Feb 05, 2002 1:16 pm


This is a very interesting thread good luck to you lisa I hope it all works out. May the Force be with you!

Lynn K

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