URGENT-CA-PHS Shelter (Bay Area)

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KarasKavies
For the love of my girls!

Post   » Mon Aug 26, 2002 12:03 am


Maineland... did I use your name? I was addressing the entire thread. Have you read the entire thread?

Lynx... may I change my Hint of Lime name to either "Ms Evil Kara" or "Hothead Kara" You choose!

Nah, actually, neither fit...
Last edited by KarasKavies on Mon Aug 26, 2002 12:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

Maineland

Post   » Mon Aug 26, 2002 7:36 am


My apologies Kara if your comments were not directed specifically towards my post. The thing that ticked me off was that I felt I was being lumped into some catagory with NastyBreeder.

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Becky

Post   » Mon Aug 26, 2002 10:04 am


I´ve always heard that having a written conversation with several people at one time can lead to confusion, and, Maineland, that seems to be what has happened to you.

It is difficult to know who is speaking to whom on a forum. The best approach, in my opinion, is to take a breath, reread what is being said, and give each writer the benefit of the doubt.

I´m one of those many people who have been following this post, but staying silent, although I have become very emotionally involved. I´m called to post now because, as KK said, I also defend my friends. Kara did not deserve your comments. I´ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you just misunderstood. If that is not the case, however, understand that Kara has many friends here.

pigpal

Post   » Tue Aug 27, 2002 2:26 am


I was under the impression that it was generally accepted that a poster´s reply was directed to the whole audience unless addressed specifically to a single poster by name. There are apparently quite a few posters who leap to take personal offence when none was intended.

Thus, I might write:

Kleenmama, concerning your misquote of my earlier post - I actually wrote:

Unfortunately, far too many Christians have interpreted this "word of God" to mean they can exploit animals as they wish, regardless of how they are treated.

The key word here is "interpreted". One of my main problems with organized religion (and you are right, this is not at all limited to the Christian faith) is that followers can interpret scriptures however they wish, to suit their own agenda. For example: to treat animals as commodities, discriminate against homosexuals or bar women from receiving equal status in society.

At no point did I write that mistreating animals is a tenet of the Christian faith. However, I have met many Christians who, in discussions concerning vegetarianism and the humane treatment of animals, have categorically cited the scriptures as evidence that animals were placed on Earth for humans to use. SOME Christians, "far too many" in my opinion, interpret this to mean animals are inferior and are not entitled to be treated with the respect due to sentient creatures. You may not regard these people as true Christians, but I can assure you that is exactly what they consider themselves.

To everyone: I apologize for any confusion over my posting using Pinta´s account. It was somewhat inconvenient to spend three weeks away from home delivering rescue guinea pigs. This was one of the more minor inconveniences of these past three weeks.

As for Teresa being a saint. Far from it. Yes, she works very hard to make life better for the guinea pigs that find their way into her rescue, and also for those she will never meet. Sometimes the frustrations and exhaustion show, in her rather blunt manner in dealing with those who complain and criticize her approach.

Due to a background in computers, a large part of Teresa´s efforts use this medium to bring guinea pig care issues to the attention of the general public. This has been hugely successful, but has also brought a downside - criticism from those who see it as seeking attention and acclaim, as well as those who don´t care for the message contained. To those who seek to criticize, I suggest they spend large amounts of their own time and money creating and publicizing websites to promote their particular messages, rather than knocking someone else´s.
Last edited by pigpal on Tue Aug 27, 2002 2:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

kleenmama
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Tue Aug 27, 2002 10:46 am


And Pigpal, MY problem with your post was that as soon as a "higher power" was brought into the discussion, you swung the critisism at Christians. I was merely pointing out that it is not only Christians that misinterpret, as you have now clarified. Thank you.

pinta

Post   » Tue Aug 27, 2002 3:25 pm


How do you figure she was swinging the criticism at Christians and not Muslims?.....Christians do not have the monopoly on a "higher power" and to assume that any comment re higher power must be referring to Christians does not take into account that billions of people who believe in a higher power are NOT Christians.

pigpal

Post   » Tue Aug 27, 2002 4:17 pm


Wait a minute! There were two parts to my original post...

1. Criticizing the concept of leaving the responsibility for the ultimate outcome of medically treating/not treating to a "higher BEING". Note: not "higher power".

A higher "being" usually refers to God, Allah or some such entity. A higher "power" encompasses the forces of nature or laws of science. A totally different kettle of fish which I accept we are sometimes unable to control, lthough we certainly can influence them greatly.

2. Criticism of SOME Christians, "far too many" who interpret the scriptures giving men dominion over animals to justify their lack of concern for animal welfare.

I have personally encountered self-professed Christians holding this opinion. I have NOT met any Hindus, Buddhists, or followers of other religions with similar views. That´s not to say they don´t exist, just that I´ve not encountered them.

To be fair to KM, I DID only mention Christians in my post and I can see why she may have thought I was only criticizing one particular faith.

pinta

Post   » Tue Aug 27, 2002 5:05 pm


Hmmm. A higher power is something mystical and unexplainable to me. Forces of nature is just nature. The floods in France I wouldn´t attribute to a higher power unless the French have been up to no good......okay, maybe nature is a higher force....

I don´t like the idea of a higher power as a being simply because it requires imagery that cannot represent all. Like the fact that God is always imaged as a white male. Too corporate boardroom to me. This excludes too many. I´d rather think of a swirling mass of energy than some person with arms and legs and genitals...........interesting concept.....does God have genitals or is he like Ken (Barbie´s guy). Uh oh....going to hell now......

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Ciaytee
Almost Inbred

Post   » Tue Aug 27, 2002 5:12 pm


Oh Pinta, you were going to hell long before you made that comment.

But since you´re going anyway, might as well enjoy the ride along the way.

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lisam

Post   » Tue Aug 27, 2002 5:28 pm


Pinta, I like your swirling mass idea. After all, shouldn´t God be able to assume any shape he/she wants?

When I make statements like that, my husband asks me to move away, so he doesn´t get hit by the lightning bolt.

pigpal

Post   » Tue Aug 27, 2002 5:29 pm


A higher power is something mystical and unexplainable to me You mean like math?

Replacing the image of a aging white male in a long robes, clutching a Palm Pilot (very corporate boardroom), I now have an image of Pinta spinning deliriously downward in a vortex of energy, while examining Ken carefully for telltale signs.

gpperson
Carpe Cavies

Post   » Tue Aug 27, 2002 5:42 pm


Did you all notice how the "new" posters seem to have disappeared?

Isn´t it strange that these posters are unable to have a civil debate of differing viewpoints and have vanished upon causing a situation in which others start to misinterpret previous posts?

Teresa - Great job! (As well as all of the other volunteers)

I will make a general statement that - most of the GuineaLynx regulars are truly caring and concerned for the well being of their gp companions
I have read many well reasoned posts. I think it is a shame that the welfare of gp´s is not the primary concern of ALL breeders. It seems that it is easier to fail the animal than to change the system. This is my opinion and I have only my limited experience to go on.

kleenmama
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Tue Aug 27, 2002 10:38 pm


"I have personally encountered self-professed Christians holding this opinion. I have NOT met any Hindus, Buddhists, or followers of other religions with similar views. That´s not to say they don´t exist, just that I´ve not encountered them."

Well then, that would explain your saying Christians. That makes sense to me now.

"To be fair to KM, I DID only mention Christians in my post and I can see why she may have thought I was only criticizing one particular faith."

That was my ONLY critisism of your post, Pigpal. Thank you so much for seeing that.

I always cringe at the bombing of abortion clinics, and the abuse that goes on in the Christian faith, and the fallout that will result regarding "Christians" because of it. THESE NUTS ARE NOT CHRISTIANS. They are religious fanatics who are usually delusional. In each religious faction, there will be splinter groups and fanatics that will, in the end, not even resemble the religion they claim to profess.

Just as Christians denounce the abortion clinic bombing, and slayings, and the abuse of women and children, and the abuse of children by the Catholic pedophiles, the Muslims I´m sure denounce the terrorists, and the Jews denounce alot of the activities against the Palestinians. Each religious organization has it´s share of lunatics.

I´m sorry for my part of any misunderstandings. I always tried to be a really good and responsible breeder, and a good portion of the breeders I know are the same way. There are some terrible breeders out there, just as there are terrible pet owners and terrible rescuers that wind up being collectors, or are not truly in it for the animals.

Speaking of which, there is a guy next door to my daughter and son-in-law that calls himself a cat rescue. Although, he has over 40 cats, none are neutered or spayed, multiple litters result every single month, most of them have eye infections or skin infections, they are constatnly hungry and fighting, and in the past 4 months 3 have been killed in the street. Each time my daughter calls to complain to the Humane Society, she gets told that he is a "rescue" and so he is given more latitude. Also, each time they come out to inspect him, he tells them that the cat in question with an infection, pregnant, etc. is not his but just a "neighborhood" cat. Weird, huh?

But I think, like gpperson, that most of the people on this board WANT to do the very best for their pigs.

Piggiddy

Post   » Tue Aug 27, 2002 10:58 pm


Hey Pigpal! No critism coming to anyone here! I think Teresa works very hard. I have only 21 pigs in my house and can only begin to encompass having 60! I think everyone is entitled to their opinion. The only thing I have a problem with is the fact that pigs are thought of as disposable pets, and that is truly bull. Just like with any other pet they should be treated as part of the family and with just as much respect! I commend everyone that puts forth the effort to save an animal. Teresa you have talked to me! Duh! It is the same story! I don´t understand why anyone should feel or take the chance of an animal being homeless or thrown away in any shape or form. Please ya´ll, get a grip! It takes all of us. Not just one! I personally have 11 of Teresa´s pigs in my home and wouldn´t have it any other way. I get the chance to make a difference in these piggies lives, as little as it may seem some of the time. But it is a difference. I think breeders and rescuers should be able to come to grips and fight together for their rights!
They deserve it! And so do all that are involved!

Sorry guys! I hope I didn´t offend anyond, but I have been sitting back reading this, and it is really getting old. We should all agree that the animals rights should be taken into context here!

Piggiddy

Post   » Tue Aug 27, 2002 11:00 pm


Oh! Also Pigpal, I am gonna send ya´ll some pics of some very adorable babies that I wouldn´t have it wasn´t for the rescue work that has been done! Moon, Watermelon, and Tigers-Eye!

Maineland

Post   » Thu Aug 29, 2002 11:11 am


OMG Have any of you guys seen this?

Man faces charges in guinea pig dissection
By Andrea Cavanaugh, acavanaugh@insidevc.com
August 28, 2002

[edited -- Lynx]

pinta

Post   » Fri Aug 30, 2002 2:55 am


Maineland - so what was the point of posting this here? What does it have to do with this thread? Maybe it´s just me but I don´t see what purpose this post serves except for shock value. Generally a warning and an URL is attached to this sort of post so that overly sensitive people won´t inadvertently stumble on it and will have the option of not clicking the URL. In fact, without permission from the author - this could be considered copyright infringement.

OMG The guy was mentally ill and strung out on drugs. So what?

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Fri Aug 30, 2002 7:36 am


I rather agree with you. Think I should edit out the copied parts? I don´t want people stumbling on it either. Rather upsetting.

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lisam

Post   » Fri Aug 30, 2002 12:14 pm


Tell me about it. My son was standing behind me when it came up. I couldn´t hit the back button fast enough, and we had to have a talk about it.

imanut4u

Post   » Fri Aug 30, 2002 2:18 pm


I also received notice via email
Last edited by imanut4u on Fri Aug 30, 2002 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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