I think I'm losing Lucy . . .

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Teresa

Post   » Fri May 21, 2004 11:06 am


I haven't talked to Dr. N yet. I have an appt to take her in tomorrow am.

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Brianna
Forum Fan Club

Post   » Fri May 21, 2004 11:22 am


Good luck with Lucy, T. We'll be thinking about you today.

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Fri May 21, 2004 2:08 pm


Teresa, my very best wishes to Lucy and to you. Please let us know how it goes tomorrow.

Our vet gave us carprofen (Rimadyl) for our over-6-we-think male, with instructions not to use it in conjuction with any other NSAID and for no more than a week at a time (if necessary to use it at all) due to potential for liver damage with it. He is moving more slowly than he used to, but not showing any real discomfort. Our vet also recommended very small amounts of glucosamine chondroitin (sp???) powder to help alleviate joint stiffness with aging, which I have not yet tried. The stuff smells unholy.

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wheeky8

Post   » Fri May 21, 2004 2:18 pm


It may smell awful, Talishan, but it really does help. Both V and I take it for our chronic back and knee joint pain.

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Fri May 21, 2004 2:29 pm


It also came highly recommended from the vet, who takes it himself. I'll hold my breath and give it a shot. Just need to tell the pigs to hold their breaths too!

I sincerely hope that's the only problem Lucy is facing.

pinta

Post   » Fri May 21, 2004 3:43 pm


I've had pigs on daily Rimadyl for years. We autopsy every pig and have yet to find any evidence that their livers have been affected by the Rimadyl. Not to say it isn't an issue, just that so far we haven't found it to be.

I recently switched Ferdinand from Meloxicam to Rimadyl and he is doing better on it.

I don't know that C is that much of an issue with arthritis. Apatche was born in our house and has arthritis. His sister did too - extremely severe in the shoulder. She was the fisrt pig to see the Physio for help since she was flopping like a fish due to the pain. Ultrasound therapy made a huge difference. She also was on Rimadyl for 3 or 4 years until she died. many other pigs who ended up with arthritis came to our house as babies.

Most arthritis seems to be age related. Pigs seem to come down with the same age related problems as humans. Just about all our seniors are on Fortekor for their hearts. 3 are on Lasix also. All the seniors are on arthritis meds too except for the diabetic who seems to have escaped both heart issues and arthritis. (She'll be 6 this June.)

Any pig at our house that gets daily meds also gets vitamin C.

I asked my vet why so many of our pigs had arthritis and her theory is that we don't have an unusally high incidence of arthritis. Because our pigs are free range we tend to notice changes in their behavior quickly. I always know to take pigs in for diagnosis when they have trouble jumping levels or climbing the condo stairs. I also see weird gaits(hopping motions) when they are running in the garden. Pigs that spend their lives in a cage don't move around enough for the owners to see there is a problem.

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Fri May 21, 2004 4:25 pm


Pinta, your experience with Rimadyl is very heartening. I will speculate my vet is erring on the side of caution, which is fine but it's comforting to know it needn't necessarily cause a problem if used long-term. Thanks.

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KarasKavies
For the love of my girls!

Post   » Fri May 21, 2004 7:12 pm


I misunderstood when you were taking Lucy in. You are taking her in on Saturday, right? I asked N about you today and he said you hadn't been in.

I hope you get good/helpful news.

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Teresa

Post   » Fri May 21, 2004 9:18 pm


Yeah, I talked to him later today. I have my appt in the am, but as soon as I get back, have a very busy adoption/surrender/cage cleaning day planned. Will post the results as soon as I can.

kleenmama
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Sat May 22, 2004 12:08 am


Talishan, when Ollie had to go on Glucosamine and Chon., I had a pharmacy compound it for me since the dosage was so small. They put it in a cherry syrup and I had to fight him for the syringe.

Josephine
Little Jo Wheek

Post   » Sat May 22, 2004 12:40 am


Yes, vitamin C can be an issue with arthritis and joint pain.

I went to some CE at a well-attended veterinary conference about 2 years ago on veterinary acupuncture. Naturally, the discussion turned to a group Q & A and discussion about integrating other modalities (diet, drugs, and other physical therapy/exercise). Vitamin C was brought up as a useful supplement (along with glucosamine, chondroitin, and MSM) with chronic bone and joint pain or acute. Daily maintenance dosages were discussed. What surprised me were the dosages for acute treatment. Like 1000-3000 mgs/day PO of the buffered stuff for an average 50-75# dog. They work to bowel tolerance and slowly ease off. I thought it was hocus pocus. No way!

It seems to work in most cases. I have tried it with my own pets (dogs) for acute on chronic arthritis (with spondylosis, too) and the results even beat the steroids and NSAIDS! I've gotten to the point that I skip the steroids and NSAIDS altogether when I have a limping/crying/screaming dog from joint issues. It's ridiculous, but I even recommended it to others who saw similar results. Crazy. Dogs manufacture vitamin C in their own bodies without supplementation. I don't know exactly the physiological workings, but everything I've learned about joints shows that vitamin C is helpful for maintaining that cartilage. The excess is excreted in the urine (mostly).

The problem, however, with LARGE doses of vitamin C over time is that bowel tolerance can be tricky (diarrhea is common with overdosing or quickly giving a large amount) and the body does tend to make urinary tract stones from that excess vitamin C.

I still recommend supplementing all arthritis pigs with 50 mgs daily. I don't think anyone has seen problems with that level. If a pig was really sore, I might even go as high as 200 mgs for a one time dose, if it was buffered. I haven't had the chance to try it in cavies. My arthritis pigs seem fairly well maintained on 50 mgs SID.

Charybdis

Post   » Sat May 22, 2004 1:24 am


Josephine, that is new and useful information for me. My dog has hip dysplasia and she took Rimadyl for a couple of years until liver damage occured. She now takes Deracoxib and glucosamine as well as Missing Link and cold pressed flax. She weighs 120 lbs....so I should really get her to 3,000 mg of C per day? She is 6 (a Dane).

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