I think I'm losing Lucy . . .

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salana
GL is Just Peachy

Post   » Sat May 22, 2004 2:45 am


I know that glucosamine's effectiveness is increased when taken in conjunction with vitamin C, but didn't know that the vitamin alone helped.

Does it help with both osteo- and rheumatoid arthritis, or do dogs only get osteoarthritis?

pinta

Post   » Sat May 22, 2004 5:26 am


Interesting re the C. I haven't seen any miraculous improvements when supplementing C to our arthritis pigs(which we do). The only miraculous improvements I've seen were with ultrasound for Soot's shoulder and with Azithromycin(sp?) for Beachez which took her from a state of paralysis to total normal movement.

Otherwise the arthritis treatments we use just maintain their mobility.

The pigs born to our house have not suffered any C deficiency and two of them have had arthritis along with their mother. Coincidentally this is the same family with heart disease. I suspect some arthritis is hereditary.

The diabetic who has no arthritis does not always get a C supplement with her meds. Sometimes we run out of the plain C and she doesn't get the orange flavoured c because of the sugar. With her, a C supplement is very hit and miss yet she is our only current senior without arthritis. Maybe she's just an anomaly...

TX Rustlers

Post   » Sat May 22, 2004 8:07 am


Teresa

I had one of my 3 year old piggys recently holding one back leg tightly under her, she was very mobile but on three legs. The ankle rather than the elbow seemed painful in her case, she would neither stretch it or put it down.
I put her on Rimadyl and took her to the vet, the ankle was x-rayed, nothing broken.
Dr G did not find anything conclusive other than the ankle was swollen, arthritus was not ruled out, nor a sprain but then there was also a possibility that the swelling involved a bacteria causant, because we didn't have anything solid we followed a course of Rimadyl + Baytril for 2 - 3 weeks which resolved the issue.

good luck Julia

Josephine
Little Jo Wheek

Post   » Sat May 22, 2004 2:09 pm


Chary, I wouldn't use the massive doses of C for more than a week or so. The side effects are not worth it (especially the stones). I would consider getting her on a maintenance dose. It only helps, not cures the problems. I, too, don't notice a huge difference on maintenance. 50 mgs/day on a cavy doesn't usually provide enough excess to be a problem, but I'm sure you won't see any serious results if they had acute musculoskeletal pain. It's like giving 100 or 500 mgs to a large dog. No marked improvement as a one time deal. When my dogs are so painful, they don't want to move I shoot them full of C (even orally works within a few hours) instead of carprofen or deracoxib, which don't usually work that well unless you use them every day (BTW, I do prefer the deracoxib hands-down to the carprofen any day). Steroids were the next choice if the dog didn't improve within 12 hours, but the side effects and consequences of frequent usage (even hit and miss) are not good at all. I hate to see my pets in pain, though. I really am a worry wort when it comes to them. I don't want them to ever hurt or be ill. I try to use steroids for the really serious, life-threatening or severe (almost irreversible) musculoskeletal injury only. I can't believe the vitamin C worked on the dogs I tried it on. I've been using it every couple of months for two years since that conference.

It should help all kinds of arthritis. It is instrumental in all sorts of immune function. There are stress, FIP (in cats), and even dermatitis indications. It is also a urinary acidifier at certain doses.

Animals prone to urate, oxalate, or cystine stones should not be on C for the long term. It may also cause false negative in urine glucose tests (for diabetics). Diarrhea and GI problems (upset) are the number one side effects.

Unfortunately, I can't seem to find a canine dosage anywhere. Darn pharmacology texts. I do know that a lot of products with glucosamine, chondroitin, and MSM also contain vitamin C additives. I'm not sure if the Missing Link Plus does or not. Perhaps some.

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Teresa

Post   » Sat May 22, 2004 9:46 pm


Okay. Here's the story. Let me just say, this was a nightmare visit for me and Lucy. It was deju vu all over again relating back to her first horrific vet experience when after she'd been in labor for 6-plus hours (I was out of town) and she had to have one pup (stillborn) manually extracted that was about 3 times the normal size. Today was just what I didn't want to happen to her. I know it was necessary but the experience was awful.

For me, this was an early morning visit and I only had coffee and OJ and no dinner with a late night of dancing the night before. So, we get there, and go back to the x-ray area after the preliminary, standard weighing and exam.

The radio tech did the best she could, but for three shots, Lucy was on her back with her legs pulled straighter for the image. Clearly major distress and pain. When she was back in my arms, she actually bite me. Not hard, but hard enough to tell me she was highly pissed and don't ever think about doing that again.

The films were done pretty quick. Before Dr. N came back, the tech, the x-ray tech and myself were looking at them on the light board or whatever you call that thing. We looked at the joints and then all kind of said, 'what's that?' hmmm.

Dr. N came in and looked at the film. Major arthritis in the knees AND a HUGE stone in her urethra. One we looked more closely at her, you could visibly see the bulge and hardness of it. She's never indicated any pain from it in crying during urination or anything. He said it might not bother her. He didn't want to do surgery and suggested we try to manually express it out with some local anesthetic.

Just prior to this, I'm starting to lose it. Feeling faint anyway. Said, I've got to sit down. There were no chairs in the vicinity, so I sat on the floor. Lucy was on the table right over my head. I could see her head, but of course chose not to watch the details of what they were doing. I think they were having some difficulty and said they wanted to take her to show her to Dr. Johnson. So, they left the room with her and I'm really losing it some more. Had to lay down on the floor and put my face on the cold tile, close my eyes and practically fall asleep to let whatever was bothering me go away.

They came back in with Lucy and said Dr. Johnson got the stone out and Lucy didn't scream or cry. Then they went and flushed her out some more.

I have the stone. Good grief! According to my measurements it's about .85 cm wide and 1.15 cm long or about 7/16 inches long and 5/16 inches wide!!

Dr. N said Meloxicam. He didn't prefer Rimadyl or Carprofen for a few reasons which I don't remember too well.

She was sacked out for hours in her cozy after we got home, but I just noticed she's up and eating hay right now. She was always an anti-people person after that first vet visit.

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RavenShade
Thanks for the Memories

Post   » Sat May 22, 2004 9:51 pm


Can you blame her?

Dang. Poor Lucy!

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sat May 22, 2004 9:54 pm


Wow. I'm glad they got the stone out. Is she on bactrim or an antibiotic? The meloxicam should help. I hope this was the basic problem and she can go on being herself. I hope some of the suggestions for arthritis help you too.

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Teresa

Post   » Sat May 22, 2004 9:56 pm


She's not on an antibiotic. Just meloxicam.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sat May 22, 2004 10:04 pm


I would think manipulating the stone out would have injured her urethra.

Hope she is comfortable.

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RavenShade
Thanks for the Memories

Post   » Sat May 22, 2004 10:07 pm


Any blood in her pee after that ordeal?

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Teresa

Post   » Sat May 22, 2004 10:08 pm


They said to probably expect some blood for a little while.

Josephine
Little Jo Wheek

Post   » Sat May 22, 2004 11:48 pm


T, I'm sure you're glad it's over, but I think that was the best news you could have heard! I'm so pleased. It sounds like she'll be fairly easy to manage from now on.

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