First Angel...now it's Elsie..crying when peeing.!

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GP Lover
My home, ruled by pigs!

Post   » Mon Jun 14, 2004 10:12 pm


About the bursting..he said the abscess is sealed off from her body cavity. It's between the skin and the abdominal wall so it wouldn't drain into her but away from her.

Yes, Jul, it sounds exactly like what you went through. What a long, ugly road she is now having to go down. She's been on Bactrim three weeks now and was on Chloramphenicol for two weeks. I'm glad I went to Dr. S. and glad he's doing a culture now.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Mon Jun 14, 2004 10:15 pm


Did you ask him if this was the sort of abscess that would or could be flushed? I imagine it would depend on how well the muscles beneath had healed/sealed (granulated? knitted?).

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jul312

Post   » Mon Jun 14, 2004 10:30 pm


I had to flush my male, Guinness, with peroxide after the warm compress and the gentle expressing of the area. It actually seemed that there was a "channel" that the puss came out of.

Did they say anything to you about warm compresses and a peroxide flush?

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Mon Jun 14, 2004 11:09 pm


Peroxide actually hinders healing. Dilute chlorhexidine gluconate or dilute povidone iodine work better. www.guinealynx.info/supplies.html

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jul312

Post   » Mon Jun 14, 2004 11:22 pm


Lynx, I think that was pretty much why I was told to use the peroxide. The wound kept closing up, preventing it from draining, and the peroxide helped as an anticeptic, and the wound was able to drain, healing from the inside out. At least, that was the way he explained it to me.

It really seemed to work, but it took quite a long time. Abscesses are just plain NASTY!!

My heart aches for your baby, GP. When my Guinness would cry while I was trying to "help" him, I cried too.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Mon Jun 14, 2004 11:25 pm


Do you know how long it took? Many weeks? It may have been counter productive. A shunt can prevent it from closing up, as can flushing a couple times a day.

Around here, most people do not use nor recommend peroxide.

GP Lover
My home, ruled by pigs!

Post   » Tue Jun 15, 2004 6:54 am


"Did you ask him if this was the sort of abscess that would or could be flushed? "

He told me that I would have to put compresses on it and flush it, yes.

I think from the needle going in it must have left a hole that some pus has leaked out. I put Betadine into it last night before bed and now this thing has shrunk dramatically. I'm betting more pus will accumulate and it will reform however so I'll have to wait and see what happens with the culture.

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jul312

Post   » Tue Jun 15, 2004 10:32 am


Oh Boy, Lynx, yes it did take about 3 weeks to heal, but I don't think the peroxide was the cause. He had soooo much pus, and the vet was hesitant to put the shunt in because of the location of the abscess. The abscess was in the lower belly area, and the vet felt that Guinness might take the shunt out when he went diving for his goodies. He determined that it would be better to just apply warm compresses, the light expressing, and the peroxide wash.

Poor Guinness had to be lanced several times because the pus just kept coming back, and the wound needed to heal from the inside out, but there was just so much pus that even the compresses couldn't keep it open enough.

Don't give up GP, if your baby is anything like mine was, it did seem to take forever, but just plain persistance and time, and it will heal.

GP Lover
My home, ruled by pigs!

Post   » Tue Jun 15, 2004 10:40 am


Well, this morning when I went to put in the Betadine I was able to express some pus out of the abscess. Hers is in the lower belly area too so I doubt a shunt would be practical for her too.

Jul312, did your vet do a culture of the pus?

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jul312

Post   » Tue Jun 15, 2004 10:58 am


No, he said it wasn't uncommon for this type of thing and he wanted to let the antibiotics run their course. If we didn't see any improvement in 3 -- 4 weeks, or if Guinness stopped eating or showed any other signs of problems, then would do some tests, but he felt it would clear up with what we were doing, and he was right.

It just seemed that time went so slow during the healing process.

My Guinness never stopped eating, drinking, pooping, peeing, all the things that he normally did, so we just gave him time.

Evangeline

Post   » Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:56 pm


jul312-
Yo, don't make up excuses. Peroxyde should NOT be used. Period.

Carol-
Ah shit. I can't wait for things to go back to normal for this poor pig.

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jul312

Post   » Tue Jun 15, 2004 10:07 pm


Wow, where did that come from Evangeline! There were no excuses here, just doing what I was told by the vet, and in doing so, it worked. It took several weeks, but my guy is alive and healthy to tell the tale.

Evangeline

Post   » Tue Jun 15, 2004 10:17 pm


It's coming from right here. Where else could it come from?

Your vet needs to educate himself. If he researches a little bit, he'll see how wrong he is. Maybe you should bring his mistake to his attention so he doesn't repeat it with another sick pig.

Do you not read? No one said it was going to kill your pig. It was said that peroxyde slows healing. It doesn,t have to do with keeping the wound open. It has to do with killing off new cells and making tissue regeneration difficult.

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jul312

Post   » Tue Jun 15, 2004 10:41 pm


It's coming from right here. Where else could it come from?
I don't understand is the hostility you are showing towards me.

I will definately talk to him about the peroxide, but I was also just giving the information as it pertained to my piggie per the instructions I was given.
Do you not read? No one said it was going to kill your pig.
I do read Evangeline, where did I say anything about it "killing" my pig? If you are referring to the statement that "he is alive and healthy to tell the tale" -- that is simply an expression.

Have I done something to you personally to upset you, if so, I am unaware of it and totally apologize, but in the same token, I don't appreciate being spoken (typed) to in the tone in which you have done to me.

I love my piggies, just as you love yours, and I would never do ANYTHING to willingly harm them. Like others in this form, I have spent thousands of dollars caring for them. They are my "children" and I will always do whatever it takes to take care of them.

I use this link on a regular basis for info on specific questions I may have, but also as a teaching tool for myself to learn whatever I can on piggies. In the sixteen months that I have owned these babies, I have gone from not even knowing there was more than one kind, to owning 5 and being totally at their mercy.

I am still learning, and reactions such as yours to something you don't agree with is not condusive to friendly web relations on a forum where you are a knowlegable, regular contributor; nor is it condusive to making one want to come to this site to ask a question, in fear that they are going to be berated for not knowing or making a mistake.

You may be 100% in what you say, but there is definately a better way to have said it.

Evangeline

Post   » Tue Jun 15, 2004 10:48 pm


I don't understand is the hostility you are showing towards me.
No hostility here. You're reading too much into my posts, I think. Try too loosen up, you're going to give yourself a heart attack.

You may be 100% in what you say, but there is definately a better way to have said it.
Oh God. Not again.

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jul312

Post   » Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:29 pm


Well, I guess it's all in the interpretation of reading what is written. To me, you are VERY DEFINATELY hostile.

As far as "loosen up" and my having a "heart attack" I don't understand why you feel I am uptight to begin with. I just don't appreciate being read out in the manner in which you chose to get your point across.

And as for the "Oh God. Not Again." Sounds like I'm not the first one to have interpretated your posts in the manner in which you intended.

People tend to chat with the same personality as they have on a personal face-to-face conversation, especially when they are comfortable in the room they are chatting. If that is truly the case, then the Sylvester Stallone-ish "Yo", and combative type chat you use shows that you have a strong personality and aren't afraid to show it. Obviously there are some, that not knowing you, take offense to the way in which you respond to something you don't agree with.

I have no quarrell with you, but I respectfully request that you take a step back and read your answer to me and see why I would interpret it as being hostile, and even berating.

I did do some "quick" research on Peter Gurney's site regarding peroxide, and plan to do considerable more on the subject, but I am just posting a quote from his site regarding the topic:

(quote from Peter Gurney): "I, and many people whom I have taught how to lance abscesses of their own animals have had a near enough ninety nine percent success record and we never use antibiotics. I use hydrogen peroxide to thoroughly clean the incision after the puss has been expressed and then spray with the anti microbial solution, colloidal silver."

Maybe my vet is incorrect in telling me to use peroxide, maybe not. It may be an item that hasn't been totally decided on yet, where there are two different ideas, and both believe their idea to be correct, and the jury's still out.

Having said that, I don't think this link is the place for us to discuss our differences. My email address is in my profile is you wish to "discuss" this further.

The important thing in the posts in this link is to help and support GP with her problem, not our disagreement on the manner in which you disagree with me.

I respectfully suggest we put our this to rest and work on helping GP. Every one on this site is here because they care about their own piggies and every one elses, and only wants to help and support each other. Is that not correct?

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swannie
For the love of pigs!

Post   » Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:34 pm


I might respectfully point out that most folks here take P. Gurney's advice with a big hefty grain of salt (possibly even a salt lick, as it were).

I don't think there's any opinion about it's necrotizing (is that a word?) effect on tissue. Why that would be beneficial or harmful in various instances may be open to debate, but it seems to me that if there is a less-harmful equivalent (chlorhexidine--sp?--for instance), one should be more inclined to use it.

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jul312

Post   » Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:49 pm


I agree, Swannie. If there is a better way, by all means, that is what should be done.

I had no clue that peroxide was harmful. Makes one wonder what it does to human tissue? Again, I have no idea, and I am willing to learn, when someone is willing to teach.

And this is meant to be a honest question, dumb tho it may be, what is wrong with Peter Gurney, that everyone here takes him with a grain of salt (salt lick, even. lol)?

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swannie
For the love of pigs!

Post   » Wed Jun 16, 2004 12:04 am


I just Googled it and found this: "The problem with hydrogen peroxide and some other traditional debriding agents is that they also damage the healthy cells (keratinocytes and fibroblasts) that are needed for wound healing and inhibit their necessary migration into the damaged area (Tatnall, Leigh, and Gibson, 1990; Tatnall, Leigh, and Gibson, 1991; O'Toole, Goel, and Woodley, 1996)."

(That info was geared toward a question about necrotic wounds, but I think it still applies.)

And there's this:

"Hydrogen peroxide's effectiveness is under discussion as well. Several investigators have demonstrated that hydrogen peroxide's bactericidal effectiveness is minimal, while its cytotoxicity is very high. Others have suggested that at higher dilutions, it may not be as toxic to the healthy tissues but most likely is still ineffective against bacteria. "

HollyT
Get on your bike.

Post   » Wed Jun 16, 2004 12:10 am


In human medicine, an initial cleaning with peroxide is acceptable but shouldn't be used repeatedly.

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