"Questran/Food Mix & Carafate"

Wheeks R Us

Post   » Mon Feb 11, 2002 12:51 am


Heather,

You have my email address if you want to know anything else. I dont know why you keep giving me the third degree on the board? I have explained over and over and now I am thought a careless, irresponsible caretaker to my pets, obviously you dont believe what I have said. And, I dont know why you keep questioning me like this. You arent caring for them, Rachel is, and if she needs anymore info, why isnt she asking me? I just talked to her on the phone and all was well, if that is not the case, I wish I knew what the problem was.

I told everyone what went on, how I got them, what I have done for them, and that is not good enough, well I am so sorry. I did my best and now thanks to all this, I like some horrible person, it is just plain wrong to rake someone over the coals like this.

I dont know why everyone doesnt realize, the mothers were very ill and malnourished when they came to me, and just days later they birthed their litters. In a few days time I CANNOT undo all that damage that was already done. I give my all to every pig that comes in the house, I am not God, I am not a miracle worker, they have small poops because they are babies, they arent developing correctly because the mothers were not treated properly, the remaining sow of Teddy´s looks the way she does and is unhealtthy because of the condition her mother was in prior to her coming here. And for the last time, they ALL ate, drank, peed, and pooped while they were here, and ate very well. They probably didnt poop on the way there because they were stressed out, they were in a car bumping around for 6 hours, to me that is stressful.

I dont know why I am being treated this way, I do not appreciate it, I wouldnt treat anyone else this way. If you had all these questions, you should have emailed me and asked. But you chose to post them here so I would have to answer to everyone who reads this board. Thanks for this wonderful treatment.

imanut4u

Post   » Mon Feb 11, 2002 1:00 am


Thing is, you have been asked via email. Thing is the numbers keep changing, the Oh I forgots come via email.

Raking you over the coals? Hmm, I haven´t even started.

Wheeks R Us

Post   » Mon Feb 11, 2002 1:12 am


Thing is, you have been asked via email. Thing is the numbers keep changing, the Oh I forgots come via email.

the numbers havent changed a bit. And, have you never forgotten to mention anything in your life? If Rachel has any doubts, she can call my vet and ask what was done, I will be happy to give her the number.

Get off your high horse and holier than thou attitude. I cant believe you would insinutate I would mistreat an animal like this. It is just plain wrong. Have you nothing better to do than try and stir up trouble? I just cannot believe you are acting this way.

imanut4u

Post   » Mon Feb 11, 2002 1:16 am


Why? Couple more questions and you´ll remember why.

Who was aspirated?

Why did Nicole start this thread for you?

What pigs came from the homeless woman?

Which ones came from Meijer?

Nicole

Post   » Mon Feb 11, 2002 1:27 am


"Why did Nicole start this thread for you?"

I didnt initally start it for her. I started it because I had questions about the meds that were given to those pigs because I had never heard of them before. I got the answers, and help, I needed, and I relayed that to Tori who then asked q´s of her own, which I took upon myself to post because I couldnt answer them myself.

I´ve seen Tori´s pigs. I´ve seen how she´s cared for her pigs. I know how much she cares for her pigs and what shes done for them. I know about the pigs that were taken from that wretched woman´s house, the condition that they were in. The comments that she made about them when Tori took them. The woman didnt give a rats ass about them and that left Tori to clean up after her. Tori busted her ass to get them healthy again. She called me and emailed me half a million times with questions, concerns and to keep me updated. To accuse her of neglect is, in my opinion, absolutely ridiculous and completely uncalled for.
Last edited by Nicole on Mon Feb 11, 2002 1:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

imanut4u

Post   » Mon Feb 11, 2002 1:36 am


Glad to see you made up.

Why did Tori turn to Nicole rather than Rachel on the questions that started this thread? Because Tori thought Rachel would tell her not to bring them knowing they were sick. Her words. Thing is .... Rachel has a big heart and will do it for the animals regardless.

Tori commented about how she needs to stop buying pigs at Meijers. She´s got her own personal pigs up for adoption on her website.

Emme might be pregnant because a boar mysteriously showed up in her pen. Looks like Cocoa & Cocoa might be pregnant as well.

Fine and dandy, I´ll back on out. I asked Rachel a direct question -- whether or not these pigs were in worse shape than the rescues I spoke of in my post about keeping numbers down to a managable amount.

Guess how she answered my question.

pinta

Post   » Mon Feb 11, 2002 1:48 am


Similac baby formula with
Iron.


Why were they/he/she being fed this? For how long?

And how does a homeless woman manage to have guinea pigs? Did she have them before becoming homeless and how many were there? (Just can´t get the picture of a homeless woman sitting on the sidewalk surrounded by guinea pigs out of my head.)

I´ve totally lost track of what the heck is going on in this thread. Did 2 pigs mysteriously die or was it just one? Aspirated? When was that? And who got aspirated?

Regardless, it still sounds like a dietary problem(small misshapened turds). I tried to Google search Similac and couldn´t come up with the ingredients in an easy to copy form. It is meant for newborn human babies....who aren´t herbivores. This may be part of the diet problem. Why on earth were they being fed human baby formula which seems to have lactose, nonfat milk and oil (safflower, coconut and soy oils) as primary ingredients?

I found this one line: Cons: iron formula is harsh on babies tummy, expensive

And this:

Less common

Signs of milk allergy (hives, wheezing); signs of milk intolerance (abdominal bloating, diarrhea, stomach cramps, vomiting)


Maybe a search wiz can ferret out the ingredients.....anyone care to give it a shot?

------------------

So the woman wasn´t homeless?
Last edited by pinta on Mon Feb 11, 2002 1:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

Nicole

Post   » Mon Feb 11, 2002 1:59 am


"Glad to see you made up."

Whether we ´made up´ or not is not an issue here. At all. I am stating my opinion on how another rescuer cared for her pigs.

"Why did Tori turn to Nicole rather than Rachel on the questions that started this thread? Because Tori thought Rachel would tell her not to bring them knowing they were sick. Her words."

Tori has turned to me from the beginning. We´ve been friends for almost 2 years now, why wouldnt she turn to me if she had a concern or a problem?

pinta

Post   » Mon Feb 11, 2002 2:02 am


Similac baby formula with Iron.

Why were they/he/she being fed this? For how long?

See my post above for more questions.

Wheeks R Us

Post   » Mon Feb 11, 2002 2:04 am


So the woman wasn´t homeless?


I dont have the original emails, she started emailing me in the beginning of December, I got them in mid December. She wasnt homeless, per se, she was living with a boyfriend, I met him when I fetched the pigs, she had emailed me from the library or so she said because she didnt have a phone at the boyfriends. He didnt have a phone because I asked to use it while I was there.

I told Rachel it was Lactose Free formula, maybe I was wrong to give it, but the vet said they were too young to treat and my other option was euthanasia. I didnt really have a choice in the matter, let them starve or feed them formula, the vet wouldnt help me with any suggestions. And, yes, I regretfully say, I aspirated a piggy, I thought she was swallowing and she wasnt. It was my fault. I made a mistake, and I am sick to death of this interrogation. I know I screwed up, but all these accusations are wrong and sickening. I wouldnt breed a pig to save my life or for any thing in this world and it truly sickens me to see where she is going with this. If I were trying to hide anything I wouldnt be telling such a reputable rescuer such as Rachel that Squeak got in Emme´s cage, and I am hurt that she would talk behind my back about it instead of to me, I wouldnt have taken them to her if I was hiding something. And, for the record, I did say I needed to stop buying pigs from Meijer, I am defeating the purpose if I support them. I know that now, and it was a hard lesson to learn. And, Emme was my last purchased pig, and that was 5 months ago. I could go on and on, but it clear what is going on here.

pinta

Post   » Mon Feb 11, 2002 2:09 am


Hey, I´m just trying to figure out why the pigs died and why they´re bloated and showing signs of dehydration.

Find the answer and future pigs will be helped.

____________

Still don´t understand why they were getting Similac at all. How old were they that the vet said they were too young to treat and what was wrong with them?

Critical Care is the ideal food source for sick pigs but it won´t take the place of meds. Newborn pigs can get kitten milk replacement(right term?).
Last edited by pinta on Mon Feb 11, 2002 2:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

Wheeks R Us

Post   » Mon Feb 11, 2002 2:12 am


And...Cocoa and Cocoa came from the same set of rescued pigs, if they are pregnant, they came to me that way. I have one boar and he has been in my room since I got him and the others have never been in here. Think whatever you want, it is clear you will, but as God as my witness, I have never bred a pig in my life.

Wheeks R Us

Post   » Mon Feb 11, 2002 2:23 am


Hi Pinta,

I know you are trying to help. They were just a few days old when I called the vet the first time. She suggested euthanasia and said they were too young for any treatment. I gave them the similac because they werent nursing. I was doing everything to try and keep them alive, and then I aspirated her, she was the weakest. I feel terrible about that, words cant even describe it. I took them to that same vet on Thurs and she acted as if she didnt remember that night I phoned her, maybe she didnt, but she said then that they were still too young for the atb´s, but she wanted them to try it anyway. I cant even put into words how ill they Moms were when they came to me, that is the only reasonable explanation as to why they were born in such bad shape. Lastly, I quit giving the formula after a few days, as they started eating again, but I was still force feeding liquid C via syringe.

Wheeks R Us

Post   » Mon Feb 11, 2002 2:29 am


The vet did give me the CC when I took them. I bought it, she didnt give me anything LOL. I took some to Rachel for them, I know it is good for them, but she wouldnt give it to me when I had called the first time. It was an all around bad situation, I know that, but I truly did what I thought was right.

pinta

Post   » Mon Feb 11, 2002 2:30 am


What was wrong with them that they needed vet care?

How long since they last had Similac? Their belly fur was stained yellow from it. How long does that stuff stay in the fur for?

Ladyveg mentioned that maybe the iron caused the small misshapened turds. This and the yellow bellies gave me the impression they had been fed Similac recently.

I have no idea how long that stuff would stay in the system.....

pinta

Post   » Mon Feb 11, 2002 2:33 am


The vet did give me the CC when I took them. I bought it, she didnt give me anything LOL.

Did the vet give you CC or did she not. I can´t understand this sentence. She didn´t give you anything of what?

Wheeks R Us

Post   » Mon Feb 11, 2002 2:34 am


It was in December. I wiped them off daily with baby wipes, and or sopa and water, I didnt want to give them a full bath because they were so young and I thought it would be stressful on them, it could also be the vitamin C, I assure you, it is NOT urine, I mean all you have to do is smell it and know if it was or not. And, the formula did have iron in it, so that could have stained it too. They needed vet care because they werent eating properly, IMO.

Wheeks R Us

Post   » Mon Feb 11, 2002 2:35 am


Did the vet give you CC or did she not. I can´t understand this sentence. She didn´t give you anything of what?


Yes, she did. I meant she didnt give it to me for free. It sounded like I was saying she gave it to me for nothing. Sorry for the confusion.

pinta

Post   » Mon Feb 11, 2002 2:42 am


Any reason why you didn´t use the Critical Care? Still don´t know why you gave them Similac.

Lactose free Similac
rpdind01.ross.com/pn/Pedi...enDocument

Below isn´t the Lactose free version but I suspect the nutrients are similar.

Similac with Iron. Nutritional info:

Nutrients per 100 Cal Ready To Feed
Energy, Cal
100
Volume, mL
148
Protein, g
2.07
% of total Calories
8%
Source: Nonfat Milk & Whey Protein Concentrate
Fat, g
5.40
% of total Calories
49%
Source: High-Oleic Safflower, Coconut & Soy Oils
Ratio: 40:30:30
Linoleic Acid, mg
1000
Carbohydrate, g
10.8
% of total Calories
43%
Source: Lactose
Ratio: 100
Vitamins
Vitamin A, IU
300
Vitamin D, IU
60
Vitamin E, IU
1.5
Vitamin K, mcg
8
Thiamine (Vitamin B1), mcg
100
Riboflavin (Vitamin B2), mcg
150
Vitamin B6, mcg
60
Vitamin B12, mcg
0.25
Niacin, mcg
1050
Folic Acid (Folacin), mcg
15
Pantothenic Acid, mcg
450
Biotin, mcg
4.4
Vitamin C (Ascorbic Acid), mg
9
Choline, mg
16
Inositol, mg
4.7
Minerals
Calcium, mg (mEq)
78 (3.9)
Phosphorus, mg
42
Magnesium, mg
6.0
Iron, mg
1.8
Zinc, mg
0.75
Manganese, mcg
5
Copper, mcg
90
Iodine, mcg
6
Selenium, mcg
2.2
Sodium, mg (mEq)
24 (1.0)
Potassium, mg (mEq)
105 (2.7)
Chloride, mg (mEq)
65 (1.8)
Other Characteristics
Potential Renal Solute Load, mosm
18.7
Water, g
133
Osmolality, mosm/kg water
300
Osmolarity, mosm/liter
270

NOTE: Values listed are subject to change. Refer to product label or packaging for most
current information.
PRSL = [Protein(g) x 5.714] + Na(mosm) + K(mosm) + Cl(mosm) + P(mosm)
The addition of iron to this formula conforms to the recommendation of the Committee on
Nutrition of the American Academy of Pediatrics. Added free nucleotides = 10.65 mg/100
Cal (72 mg/L). Values are for Ready To Feed.


Josephine, could any of this stuff stay in the system long enough to cause problems?

pinta

Post   » Mon Feb 11, 2002 2:44 am


Were you weighing the babies daily? Sometimes they´ll lose a bit of weight in the first week before starting to gain.

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