Correct Lasix dosage

User avatar
Cara

Post   » Wed Nov 13, 2002 2:18 pm


Ok, after spending all morning at the vets, my vet is sending me to Dr. Fisher at Pet Care Vet Clinic in Va. Beach. She took more x-rays, Zipper's heart is still enlarged, that probably won't ever change. However, she still has fluid in her lungs, not as much but it's still there. Her belly is full of air and she also has lots of food in there. My vet wouldn't give me the Reglan. She said since we're going tomorrow at 8am to Dr. Fisher, she didn't want to give her any more meds. I'm to continue the lasix. The x-rays also showed something on/in her lung(s), the vet has no idea and she said she's prefer I got to Dr. Fisher who has treated exotics for 20 yrs. She trusts him and said he knows more than she does. She doesn't want to try anything more since Zipper is distended. This doc told my vet over the phone to give Zipper 50 mg of vit. c today. She is eating and pooping and peeing therefore vet didn't want to give the reglan. She said since there is some coming out she's rather wait for me to see the other vet. Zipper is still breathing labored but that is the only thing that shows any improvement. She is pretty active, not lethargic and eating so I'm just praying that things go ok until I get her to the new vet tomorrow am.

Josephine
Little Jo Wheek

Post   » Wed Nov 13, 2002 2:43 pm


How frustrating this must be for you. Poor Zipper. I sure hopes she does well, but I can't say I'm not worried that this has to wait until tomorrow. What can you do?

The heart size and murmur intensity may not decrease with treatment. We generally go by behavior and other clinical signs to see how the pig is doing. I really wish your vet would have given you some Reglan and Enacard...

User avatar
Cara

Post   » Wed Nov 13, 2002 2:49 pm


There isn't anything I can do. This new vet can't see her today. I suppose if she were critical but my regualr vet doesn't think she's critical. Mushy poops count for something I guess. I am regretting not insisting on reglan but even then I'm not sure she'd have given it to me. I'll update again tomorroe after seeing Dr. Fisher.

Josephine
Little Jo Wheek

Post   » Wed Nov 13, 2002 2:55 pm


I know you're doing all you can. You can't force a vet to prescribe medications. You have done right by her. I just hope the vet isn't making an ignorant mistake. I've been through the sick pig scenario too many times, I suppose.

User avatar
Seansfamily

Post   » Wed Nov 13, 2002 8:30 pm


I just want to point out that my guinea pig Sean was on a high dose of Lasix and lived 4 more years after nearly dying of congestive heart failure--3 of them were very, very good years, too.

Josephine provided me with dosing recommendations on ACE inhibitors for Sean and that made my vet much more comfortable about prescribing one. She prescribed Lotensin (which I think is the same as Fortekor). Sean took this med during the last year of his life.

Here are the dosages that Sean was taking for both meds:

12.5 mg Lasix (1/2 of the dose in the a.m. & 1/2 in the p.m.)
1/4 of a Lotensin 5 mg tablet (1.25 mg per day)

I also want to mention that Sean took TABLETS for both of these meds. I had to use a pill cutter to cut the tablets into the right size for each dose. They were, therefore, small pieces. I turned Sean onto his back, cradled him in my left hand and arm, and then popped the small bit of pill into his mouth. I popped the pill in sideways behind his front teeth and right onto his tongue--toward the back. He seemed to have a natural gag response that caused him to close his mouth and move the pill to his molars which then chewed it up. Sean never tried to spit the Lasix out, but he did spit the Lotensin out occasionally. I just put it right back and after another try or two, Sean would eventually chew it and swallow it. Sean never choked during the process of giving him his meds in this way.

Here's a great link on Lotensin. I found the explanation on how the med works to be helpful. Please scroll down to the Dosage section and read the paragraph written for patients on diuretics (such as Lasix). It explains a lot. (Please note that this write-up on Lotensin was written for HUMANS so please ignore the recommended dosage, but I think it is still helpful in explaining the interaction with diuretics.)

http://www.healthsquare.com/pdrfg/pd/monos/lotensin.htm

imanut4u

Post   » Thu Nov 14, 2002 8:12 am


Seansfam, can you email me your vet ... again?
thanks!

imanut4u@yahoo.com

User avatar
Karen
Slug Whisperer

Post   » Thu Nov 14, 2002 10:06 am


Cara, not all Canadians are as nasty as E. I think the bitter November cold is biting at her butt......damn easterners.......
Oh wait, I use to be one to!

The west coast here in BC is much nicer......and warmer.

User avatar
Cara

Post   » Thu Nov 14, 2002 11:48 am


Ok, saw new vet this am and he was wonderful. Zipper had blood taken to check her white cell count because he wanted to make sure the fluid in her lungs was from the heart and not an infection fluid. He also wanted to rule out any kind of infection. He looked over the preivous x-rays, compared them with other xrays and some in a book. He gave her injections of vit. c, reglan, and buprenophine for pain. He took a needle and took air out of her stomach. He put her on Enacard every 24 hours, 0.2 cc's. He put her on ciscpride (propulsid) every 12 hours at 0.1 cc and had me continue to lasix every 8 hours. He also gave me Critical Care and said once she eats some to crush up the vit. c tablets and add to it. I'm to try for 12-20 cc's every 8 hours. When I got her home, I gave her the first doses of enacard and propulsid. I didn't try any critical care and she was just wanting to be under the hay. I have to go home at lunch for the lasix so I'll try some then. She had a really rough morning. He wasn't going to give her the reglan but I insisted. Her poops were tiny and a funny color. As soon as she came back after getting the pain shot and the air taken out of her belly she ate some cucumber. She wouldn't eat anything but bits of hay this am. He had romaine and parsley and she woofed that down. He wants to see her back next Thurs. to reevalute her and then try to lower the lasix. He thinks she'll need the lasix and the enacard to maintain her. Her heart is huge. My regular vet then called to see what he did and how she was. She was on the right track but in a way I'm glad she wouldn't take my suggestions because this man was awesome.

User avatar
melcvt00

Post   » Thu Nov 14, 2002 6:57 pm


Cucumber probably wasn't the best thing (it can make them kinda gassy)....but if it was all she'd eat....better than nothing.

Josephine
Little Jo Wheek

Post   » Thu Nov 14, 2002 9:22 pm


Glad to hear you found a more knowledgeable vet. I hope Zipper continues to improve.

User avatar
Cara

Post   » Fri Nov 15, 2002 8:13 am


Her breathing is much, much better. What worries me now is her eyes are watery and her poops are very mushy. I guess that's better than small and dry. She is afraid of me and when I come into the room she runs into her house. She has eaten some lettuce and cilantro, she didn't carrot and she didn't have a chance to eat tomato b/c the others ate them before she could. I haven't gotten the critical care into her, should I really force feed it? I think my questions are winding down. I just wish she'd chew on the wire like she used to for food.

User avatar
melcvt00

Post   » Fri Nov 15, 2002 8:17 am


Check her weight....if she's still losing, I would definitely forcefeed. The more weight she loses, the worse she'll feel, so the less she'll eat, so she'll lose more weight, so she'll feel worse, so.....

You get the idea. A little weight goes a long way with these guys....

Glad to hear that she's doing a bit better, though. :)

User avatar
Cara

Post   » Fri Nov 15, 2002 8:22 am


Mel, if you read the preivous posts you'll see she's gaining weight. She normally weighs just under a lb. She did weigh 1.1 lbs and popped up to 2.0. She weighed 2 at the vets yesterday and this am was just under. It's not an issue of weight loss. Josephine, do I force feed the critical care? I'm asking because she is eating some hay and veggies. She is pooping, it's mushy, not holding a real shape but it is poop so that means the food is coming through. I know her motility won't be back to normal right away. Should she be getting more reglan or is the propulsid enough? Thank you so much for your answers and help. I really appreciate it.

User avatar
melcvt00

Post   » Fri Nov 15, 2002 8:35 am


But was it real weight, or fluid weight?

User avatar
Cara

Post   » Fri Nov 15, 2002 8:45 am


Reread my posts! I really am short on nerves and time so forgive me if I sound like a super bitch today. She had fluid arounbd her heart and in her lungs and air in her belly but she also had tons of food which couldn't get though. I am asking because she normally only weighs under a lb or lately just over 1.1 at the absolute most. She is losing weight but she's coming back to normal so therefore b/c she's still have motility problems so I jam more food into just for the sake of getting it in there???? I know the critical care has good things a sick pig needs but she's not pooping normally yet.

User avatar
Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Fri Nov 15, 2002 8:54 am


Mel, if you read the preivous posts you'll see she's gaining weight. She normally weighs just under a lb. She did weigh 1.1 lbs and popped up to 2.0. She weighed 2 at the vets yesterday and this am was just under. It's not an issue of weight loss.
You have no idea if she is gaining or not. You can't make this statement.

Personally I would feed the Critical Care. She is still ill and struggling. I know people who feel it really gives them an edge -- very nutritious and has lots of extra good things.

Because of the strange fluctuations in weight, you really have no idea where she is.

User avatar
Cara

Post   » Fri Nov 15, 2002 9:29 am


Yes I can make this statement. When she weighs .8 lbs for her entire adult life and goes up ti 1.1 lbs, that's a weight gain. I know there have been fluctations in weight but that's a weight gain. I'll feed the critical care. I am so tired and so worried and probably making this much worse than it is but after losing Sable to bloat I am so worried that it will happen to Zipper. I guess as long as poop is coming out in whatever form it'll be ok to feed the critical care.

kleenmama
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Fri Nov 15, 2002 10:15 am


Oh Cara, what a struggle you have had! Poor Zipper, and I totally understand the raw nerve endings.

Here is the way I see it. She is getting things to help her motility, so she should be able to poop ok now. I understand your concern with bloat, thank God that is something I've never been through.

OK, so the Critical Care is the BEST POSSIBLE food you can get into her. Ounce for ounce, it has more and better nutrition that anything else she will eat on her own.

It will most likely firm up her poops. If I am ever able to even get 10 cc's a day into a pig, they have been saved.

Since her weight gain is due to air, extra fluid, and other abnormal things, my guess would be that she still needs terrific nutrition.

Critical care has that. So although she is now afraid of you, she will calm down. She needs to get into her system the things that the CC has in it, the probiotics, fiber, vitamins, etc.

I know it means a ton of extra stress, but he way I see it, if she is on this many meds, she needs all the nutrition she can get. Oh, and one more thing. The Critical care has things in it to ward off dehydration.

Take care, ok? Prayers are being said on this end.

User avatar
Cara

Post   » Fri Nov 15, 2002 10:25 am


thanks, I'll get as much into her as I can over lunchtime.

Evangeline

Post   » Fri Nov 15, 2002 12:21 pm


When she weighs .8 lbs for her entire adult life and goes up ti 1.1 lbs, that's a weight gain.

No, not always. I agree with Kleenmama. The additional weight is probably caused by the fluids she is retaining due to her heart problems. She is weighing more on the scale, but if it's fluids, it doesn't really count as a real weight gain, as in gaining fat and muscle. I would still handfeed her Critical Care. It can only help.

I hope she keeps improving.

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