Correct Lasix dosage

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Josephine
Little Jo Wheek

Post   » Tue Nov 12, 2002 5:46 pm


Yup. Trial and error.

My heart pig not only gets labored breathing when stressed, but his pink ears and feet get beet red. I know to back off then. It is kinda tricky judging how much stress he can take, but he has gotten used to the regular grooming and bathing (which he hates, but strutts his stuff when dry) and the blood draws. He also doesn't resist his pill. Just part of the routine, even when it doesn't taste great.

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Cara

Post   » Wed Nov 13, 2002 8:05 am


Well, I"m going to ask my headmaster if I can take her in now. Her breathing is worse again, not as bad as it was. Her watery eyes have cleared up and she's not rattling at all. In two days she's jumped from 1.1 lbs to 2.0lbs though. What side of the body is their stomach on? I wasn't sure if an x-ray was exactly like a picture or backwards? The left side of her body is sticking out more than the right. I'll definietley ask for the enacard and figure out what to do now. I'm really quite worried about her.

pinta

Post   » Wed Nov 13, 2002 9:41 am


She's almost doubled in weight in 2 days???? Off the top of my head I'd say she needs Reglan ASAP.

Josephine
Little Jo Wheek

Post   » Wed Nov 13, 2002 1:10 pm


Not normal. Either there is a lot of excess gas or fluid (ascites) in the abdomen. Xrays could tell you that. It sounds as if she might need Reglan or more Lasix, but you need to know what the extra stuff is. Usually gas doesn't add that much to the weight, but it could be the problem.

Xrays are direct imprints. The positioning of the organs depends on how the animal was placed on the plate for xrays. They shoot on the side, from the abdomen to the back, or from the back to the abdomen. In a normal xray, the stomach is found on the left side of the body. That is its normal position in the abdominal cavity.

From your description either the stomach is filled with gas and/or there is fluid pushing the stomach out in the abdomen. The pig should at the very least get Lasix, Enacard, and Reglan. Maybe O2 therapy if the pig is not oxygenating well. Animals in cardiac failure have a tendency to gulp air into their stomachs and their abdomen fills with fluid due to poor cardiac output.

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Cara

Post   » Wed Nov 13, 2002 2:18 pm


Ok, after spending all morning at the vets, my vet is sending me to Dr. Fisher at Pet Care Vet Clinic in Va. Beach. She took more x-rays, Zipper's heart is still enlarged, that probably won't ever change. However, she still has fluid in her lungs, not as much but it's still there. Her belly is full of air and she also has lots of food in there. My vet wouldn't give me the Reglan. She said since we're going tomorrow at 8am to Dr. Fisher, she didn't want to give her any more meds. I'm to continue the lasix. The x-rays also showed something on/in her lung(s), the vet has no idea and she said she's prefer I got to Dr. Fisher who has treated exotics for 20 yrs. She trusts him and said he knows more than she does. She doesn't want to try anything more since Zipper is distended. This doc told my vet over the phone to give Zipper 50 mg of vit. c today. She is eating and pooping and peeing therefore vet didn't want to give the reglan. She said since there is some coming out she's rather wait for me to see the other vet. Zipper is still breathing labored but that is the only thing that shows any improvement. She is pretty active, not lethargic and eating so I'm just praying that things go ok until I get her to the new vet tomorrow am.

Josephine
Little Jo Wheek

Post   » Wed Nov 13, 2002 2:43 pm


How frustrating this must be for you. Poor Zipper. I sure hopes she does well, but I can't say I'm not worried that this has to wait until tomorrow. What can you do?

The heart size and murmur intensity may not decrease with treatment. We generally go by behavior and other clinical signs to see how the pig is doing. I really wish your vet would have given you some Reglan and Enacard...

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Cara

Post   » Wed Nov 13, 2002 2:49 pm


There isn't anything I can do. This new vet can't see her today. I suppose if she were critical but my regualr vet doesn't think she's critical. Mushy poops count for something I guess. I am regretting not insisting on reglan but even then I'm not sure she'd have given it to me. I'll update again tomorroe after seeing Dr. Fisher.

Josephine
Little Jo Wheek

Post   » Wed Nov 13, 2002 2:55 pm


I know you're doing all you can. You can't force a vet to prescribe medications. You have done right by her. I just hope the vet isn't making an ignorant mistake. I've been through the sick pig scenario too many times, I suppose.

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Seansfamily

Post   » Wed Nov 13, 2002 8:30 pm


I just want to point out that my guinea pig Sean was on a high dose of Lasix and lived 4 more years after nearly dying of congestive heart failure--3 of them were very, very good years, too.

Josephine provided me with dosing recommendations on ACE inhibitors for Sean and that made my vet much more comfortable about prescribing one. She prescribed Lotensin (which I think is the same as Fortekor). Sean took this med during the last year of his life.

Here are the dosages that Sean was taking for both meds:

12.5 mg Lasix (1/2 of the dose in the a.m. & 1/2 in the p.m.)
1/4 of a Lotensin 5 mg tablet (1.25 mg per day)

I also want to mention that Sean took TABLETS for both of these meds. I had to use a pill cutter to cut the tablets into the right size for each dose. They were, therefore, small pieces. I turned Sean onto his back, cradled him in my left hand and arm, and then popped the small bit of pill into his mouth. I popped the pill in sideways behind his front teeth and right onto his tongue--toward the back. He seemed to have a natural gag response that caused him to close his mouth and move the pill to his molars which then chewed it up. Sean never tried to spit the Lasix out, but he did spit the Lotensin out occasionally. I just put it right back and after another try or two, Sean would eventually chew it and swallow it. Sean never choked during the process of giving him his meds in this way.

Here's a great link on Lotensin. I found the explanation on how the med works to be helpful. Please scroll down to the Dosage section and read the paragraph written for patients on diuretics (such as Lasix). It explains a lot. (Please note that this write-up on Lotensin was written for HUMANS so please ignore the recommended dosage, but I think it is still helpful in explaining the interaction with diuretics.)

http://www.healthsquare.com/pdrfg/pd/monos/lotensin.htm

imanut4u

Post   » Thu Nov 14, 2002 8:12 am


Seansfam, can you email me your vet ... again?
thanks!

imanut4u@yahoo.com

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Karen
Slug Whisperer

Post   » Thu Nov 14, 2002 10:06 am


Cara, not all Canadians are as nasty as E. I think the bitter November cold is biting at her butt......damn easterners.......
Oh wait, I use to be one to!

The west coast here in BC is much nicer......and warmer.

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Cara

Post   » Thu Nov 14, 2002 11:48 am


Ok, saw new vet this am and he was wonderful. Zipper had blood taken to check her white cell count because he wanted to make sure the fluid in her lungs was from the heart and not an infection fluid. He also wanted to rule out any kind of infection. He looked over the preivous x-rays, compared them with other xrays and some in a book. He gave her injections of vit. c, reglan, and buprenophine for pain. He took a needle and took air out of her stomach. He put her on Enacard every 24 hours, 0.2 cc's. He put her on ciscpride (propulsid) every 12 hours at 0.1 cc and had me continue to lasix every 8 hours. He also gave me Critical Care and said once she eats some to crush up the vit. c tablets and add to it. I'm to try for 12-20 cc's every 8 hours. When I got her home, I gave her the first doses of enacard and propulsid. I didn't try any critical care and she was just wanting to be under the hay. I have to go home at lunch for the lasix so I'll try some then. She had a really rough morning. He wasn't going to give her the reglan but I insisted. Her poops were tiny and a funny color. As soon as she came back after getting the pain shot and the air taken out of her belly she ate some cucumber. She wouldn't eat anything but bits of hay this am. He had romaine and parsley and she woofed that down. He wants to see her back next Thurs. to reevalute her and then try to lower the lasix. He thinks she'll need the lasix and the enacard to maintain her. Her heart is huge. My regular vet then called to see what he did and how she was. She was on the right track but in a way I'm glad she wouldn't take my suggestions because this man was awesome.

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