First Angel...now it's Elsie..crying when peeing.!

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pinta

Post   » Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:15 am


Have you ruled out arthritis in her back?

GP Lover
My home, ruled by pigs!

Post   » Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:16 am


"Have you ruled out arthritis in her back?

Yes, on your advice it was checked last year.

What do you think about taking blood from the jugular?

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swannie
For the love of pigs!

Post   » Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:17 am


I thought the leaf lettuces had a better ratio than romaine, is all.

pinta

Post   » Mon Jan 03, 2005 5:49 pm


What do you think about taking blood from the jugular?
Standard procedure when they can't get enough from the toe. My vet usually goes for an artery running doewn the front leg.

If the squeaking is new and there's no sign of a UTI - it's worth rexraying to check again for arthritis. You'll have xrays for comparison. If you already xrayed and the spine is showing well, would be worth another look especially if there are no other explanations.

GP Lover
My home, ruled by pigs!

Post   » Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:02 pm


"If the squeaking is new and there's no sign of a UTI..."

Unfortunately I first noticed the squeaking in August 2003. She has been through a lot since then with 2 different vets. The one I see now is willing and researching to try everything he can to get her pain relief. Nothing's working so far. I think she's used to it now and she seems like a happy pig.

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Becky

Post   » Wed Jan 05, 2005 11:13 pm


Romaine and iceburg are the only two lettuces that do not have a good Ca:Ph ratio. You're better off giving her looseleaf if you feel that the endive/escarole are too high in oxalates. (Carrots, by the way, have about the same amount of oxalates as endive and escarole.)

Make most of the salad base looseleaf and add a small amount of romain. For example, give her three leaves of looseleaf and half a leaf of romaine.

Better yet, give her two leaves of looseleaf, and one leaf of either endive or escarole. As long as you don't supersaturate any one meal with oxalates, it should be fine.

Of the rest of your list, only oranges, pellets and hay have a good ratio, which means that diet is relatively heavy in terms of phosphorous.

If you decide to bring back fresh food, stick with the looseleaf. It's got a fair amount of Vit. C., a good ratio and is readily available. Add cilantro for flavor and added Vit. C. and if she tolerates it, give her some kale. It's medium oxalates and terrific for Vit. C.

Rotate peppers, oranges, cucumbers, celery (good Ca:Ph ratio), kiwi, apples and melon on a daily basis. My rule is one slice of a fruit (1/4 of an apple, kiwi, pear--small sliver of melon--2 inches of celery) per pig. Oranges have a good Ca:ph ratio, medium oxalates, so two slices would be fine.

AVOID:
Chard, parsley and spiniach--too high in oxalates for her

Recap:

Sample Daily meal--


2 leaves looseleaf lettuce
1 leaf endive or escarole
4-5 sprigs of cilantro
*1/4 of a medium red bell pepper
**1 slice of orange

* OR--2 baby carrots, 2 inches of celery, 2 inches of cucumber, 2 grape tomatoes.

** OR--1/4 of an apple, 1/4 of a kiwi, small sliver of melon, 1/4 of an orange

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Thu Jan 06, 2005 12:30 am


"Carrots, by the way, have about the same amount of oxalates as endive and escarole" -- this depends on the source. My source lists them as very low (USDA). You might want to add this to the thread I moved to the reference forum that Teresa started -- since there have been questions concerning how to do the diet. I personally think people just have to purchase a good gram scale and figure it out (at least in the beginning).

GP Lover
My home, ruled by pigs!

Post   » Thu Jan 06, 2005 6:35 am


Thanks so much Becky! By loose leaf lettuce I take it you mean green and red leaf? All my girls hate cilantro but I'll try the Kale. They never get parsley, chard or spinach so that's not been the problem.

I went to Dr. S with her yesterday. What an ordeal! He had trouble getting blood from her so he ended up cutting a nail to make her bleed. Her test results for liver/kidney disease were negative.

Then, I was taken in the back to be shown how to do the subcues by his technician. There's Angel laying on the counter with an IV bag (with the subcue solution) and she's half sedated (from him trying to get blood before). She proceeds to describe the process to me and she can't get Angel to sit still for the needle going in. So, I take over and I insert the needle with no problem. She didn't even cry. Then, her whole body starts to jerk and the technician says her skin is hard already and that I'd have to remove the needle and stick it in somewhere else. Meanwhile, Angels jerking away and I tell her forget it, I don't want to put her through this.

Dr. S agreed it was probably better to leave her alone at this point (I can syringe her water) but he gave me the higher dose of Metacam (.35 1 x day) and I asked for another urinalysis. Those test results showed a very slight improvement. She had a moderate amount of Amorphous crystals this time.

He also said I could put her back on the Bactrim and see if she improves.

For her the Polycitra-K was not a good idea because her urine is not acidic, it's alkaline.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Thu Jan 06, 2005 9:27 am


It sounds like, from what Becky has explained, the polycitra does not change the acidity or alkalinity of the urine so much as bind with calcium (do I have this right?).

I hope she is able to manage okay and you are able to get this under control.

GP Lover
My home, ruled by pigs!

Post   » Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:04 am


I was told the Polycitra-K would make her urine more alkaline. They said her Urine ph is too high and the goal is to bring it down by making her urine more acidic.

I work with chemical engineers and one of them has given me some suggestions which I will try. I'm also going to buy urine Ph strips and monitor that. I also have one piggie (Sophie) who never cries when she urinates. It will be interesting to see what her urine pH is.

I forgot to add I am trying the Bactrim again. If it works then we know she needs to stay on it.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Thu Jan 06, 2005 1:26 pm


I understand what you were told. All guinea pig urine is alkaline. As Becky explained, (perhaps on another thread), polycitra has other benefits. Hopefully she will check in and comment (and I will be on the right track as far as her personal experiences go).

GP Lover
My home, ruled by pigs!

Post   » Thu Jan 06, 2005 2:25 pm


Well, it hasn't done anything positive for her so in the interest of avoiding doing anything that may be having a negative affect I think I'll pass on using it.

At this point I'll try things that are inexpensive and will not cause her any harm or unnecessary stress (like the subcues).

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