Swollen belly or fat? Side effects from medicine?

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Ada

Post   » Fri Nov 22, 2002 8:43 pm


My guinea pig, Carbonel, was recently treated for his large teeth (malloclusion?) I never knew they were long, I guess they were his back teeth?
However, while he was being treated for this, the vet checked out some other problems he was having. Because he was not actually ingesting the food I THOUGHT he was eating, he became extremely thin, and he is a tiny pig to start with. The vet gave me Critical Care and some vitamin C. I was so concerned he wouldn't take either, but he loved both! He went in a week later and actually lost weight, but the vet was happy because he was passing normal poops again. This time she gave me..the bottle says Alternagel Alum, Hydrox. He was iffy on that but now accepts it. I am to bring him in in a month, which will be Dec. 4.
The problem is, the last few days I have noticed when picking him up that there is a part under his belly that seemed squishy...I don't know how else to describe it. It was about the size of a quarter. He wasn't upset if I touched it, and the vet had checked him very well before and said she could detect no lumps or anything to indicate tumors. As this lump was in his lower extremity, I wondered if it wasn't a large poop building up in him. He has finally been able to pass the larger poops, so I wasn't too worried,
However, each day since, the squishy part seems to be larger and larger...not in mass (like goiter) but in surface area. It is almost his whole underside now. Again, it doesn't hurt him if I pick him up. I have also noticed that the fur has thinned in these areas, so I can't tell if the squishy feeling is more bloat or just exposed skin? He walks fine.
My vet had also mentioned at the last few appointments that there is evidence of kidney failure. Because I wasn't the one who actually brought Carbonel in on all these occasions, the details I got are sketchy. She said he was in no immediate danger and with him getting proper care now, he can stay a healthy happy pig, but he will not have the lifespan of a regular healthy pig. My mother thought that maybe, if he is suffering from kidney failure, that the squishy feeling may be fluid that isn't being expelled? He drinks his water normal and he definitely is not holding back on piddling whenever and wherever he wants to, so I find it hard to believe too much could be blocked up.
I know I cannot wait until Dec. to find out about this, but it is too late to find out anything from the vets office tonight. Can anyone identify with the above symptoms? Does it sound like anything that may have happened to one of your pigs? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

~ada

User avatar
Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Fri Nov 22, 2002 10:06 pm


From your description, I can see why you are worried. I don't remember reading about a problem ever described this way. Your mom might be right about excess water. I agree with your intention to see the vet sooner.

I wish I could be of some help but I am clueless. Please let us know what the vet thinks.

User avatar
melcvt00

Post   » Fri Nov 22, 2002 10:19 pm


Now why would a vet prescribe a medication that prevents excess phosphorus absorption to a guinea pig?

User avatar
Paravati
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Sat Nov 23, 2002 2:12 am


uuhhh... What?

pinta

Post   » Sat Nov 23, 2002 6:11 am


My vet had also mentioned at the last few appointments that there is evidence of kidney failure.

Is he receiving weekly or twice weekly hydration subcues to deal with the kidney problem? This is standard procedure for most animals with beginning kidney failure (although there is a type of kidney problem for which hydrating is not recommended).

I am not familiar with Alternagel Alum, Hydrox.

The swelling could be an edema or maybe a hernia? I wouldn't wait to take him in. I think this needs to be looked at immediately.

If you can't speak to the vet directly during the examination, it would be worth talking to him/her by phone so you are clear on the details.

User avatar
melcvt00

Post   » Sat Nov 23, 2002 9:17 am


AlternaGEL, Amphogel, Aluminum Hydroxide....it's all the same thing. It's commonly used in cats and dogs to prevent excess phosphorus absorption in those animals with kidney failure. But then, the high phosphorus levels that usually lead to the AlternaGEL are usually determined by bloodwork, not just blindly prescribed.

So does anyone know (Josephine?) if it's really ok to use it on guinea pigs in possible kidney failure?

User avatar
Ada

Post   » Sat Nov 23, 2002 12:56 pm


I don't think it was blindly prescribed. On his first visit, the vet had trimmed his teeth down as much as she could without overstressing him-he was in bad shape and they wanted him to gain some weight. But I brought him back a week later for her to finish the job. They put him under (I did not even KNOW that was possible!) and trimmed his teeth back further, and my understanding is they took more tests while he was out. The receipt I have just mentions X-ray for Survey view, radiologist report and Additional view? It lists the anesthesia used, the alternagel alum. hydrox, laboratory:chem profile and inmed serv:injection. I am not sure what the injection was for, but I think the chem profile was a urine sample, not blood. But I did speak to the vet before I dropped him off for his surgery, and she said she was taking a blood test, too. So I am sure that is how she determined the phosphorus level was high.

I do not know what a hydration subcue is, but he does not go to the vet twice a week and she did not recommend that I do anything different only twice a week, so I would imagine not. She did say to remove his salt lick and increase his veggie supply with high water content veggies. She did advise me not to put vitamin C drops in the water, or to allow a supply of water that does NOT have vitamin C in it, because the vitamin C may prevent them from drinking. (I have read that here too.) But I have noticed with the 2 male pigs that they attack their water bottles more when I put the drops in as opposed to not. As it is, I alternate using the drops, then giving them a fresh bottle. It seems to be okay with them.

The problem with trying to keep in contact with my vet is, my employer does not allow any calls from work, personal or medical related, and I am not exaggerating. I am still involved with a workers comp case for an injury that occurred AT the workplace, and they won't even allow me to speak to those doctors while I am at work, and I believe that is a violation of the law? But that's another story. That is why I have been relying on my poor sister-in-law to make these appointments for me, because she ultimately is the one who brings him in. I was almost fired the morning I dropped him off for the surgery because it made me late for work. And the hours are longer than a typical work day, so usually the vets office is closed before I go to work, and closed after I get out. Stinks. I know it sounds like a poor excuse to not keep better contact with the doctor, but his little surgery was EXPENSIVE, and if I lose the job, I will not be able to keep up with his expenses, let alone my own.

She said his calcium levels are ok and asked me to replace his alfalfa pellets with timothy pellets. He LOVES timothy hay but does not seem interested in the pellets at all. And does anyone know if the high phosphorus levels have anything to do with his teeth? He has had his teeth trimmed all three times I have brought him in, and the note the vet sent back with him indicates that he will probably need them trimmed every month. I have owned a lot of guinea pigs and none of them had such rapidly growing teeth! And it isn't the front two, it is the molars.

User avatar
Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sat Nov 23, 2002 1:15 pm


Sounds like you have a difficult situation. Do they give you breaks? Can you leave the company and make a call?

A hydration subcue is a subcutaneous (under the skin) shot of fluids to help hydrate (increase the amount of fluids in the body) in a dehydrated pig.

User avatar
Ada

Post   » Sat Nov 23, 2002 1:40 pm


It is a serious situation, and I was going to try to stick it out until anything legal involving my comp case is finished, but after yesterday, I don't think it will be possible for me to stay anymore. Of course, that doesn't help me now. I have been making my emergency phone calls from a cell phone in my car at the closest take out place-we aen't even supposed to have cell phones at our building so I guess irt would not be a good idea to be seen using one in the work parking lot!
I think maybe because Carbonel doesn't appear to be dehydrated, the vet may not have thought it necessary to inject more fluid. Even before I brought him in, his appetite and what he was drinking hadn't changed. Of course, now I know he didn't eat everything he was chewing on, but I know he was drinking steadily. He was having difficulty reaching the water bottle for awhile. I lowered the bottle as much as I could without making it impossible for him to drink, and then added a tiny block of wood for him to put his feet on, as he was still reaching for the bottle. When I was present, I even held his paws for him while he drank-what a funny sight that was! But when he got stronger, he didn't need me or the lowered bottle, I just left the block.
He loves Critical Care. He probably doesn't need it anymore but he is so used to getting it first thing in the morning, immediately after I get home from work, and right before I go to bed. I call it his piggy milkshake. That last one is tricky because he usually decides to fall asleep on me then, and God forbid I put him in his cage so I can go to bed! This has-if anything-been a bonding experience.
He can't take carrots very well anymore-I think it still bothers his teeth. But they all get romaine, dandelion greens, apples, and of course their timothy hay and pellets. If I give the others carrots, I try to cut up small pieces for Carbonel, or shave them.
~ada

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sat Nov 23, 2002 1:51 pm


I think freshly rinsed and lightly shaken off romaine is a good hydrator. Sounds like your pig is fine (hydration wise). I understand one method of checking for dehydration is to pull up on the skin on the back of the neck. If it snaps back, your pig is fine. If it kind of stays slightly pulled up and raised, the pig may be dehydrated.

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Ada

Post   » Sat Nov 23, 2002 2:26 pm


NOTHING on that pig stays put! (When he is not sick, he is one hyper little pig. He is the one I can't post a good picture of because he will not sit stilllong enough for a good picture...they are always blurry!) I pet his head the whole time we do the Critical Care, and I have tried pulling a little, and it doesn't stay, it goes right back.
I am wondering if he isn't blocked a little. He never had a poop problem. When he started getting weak from not eating right, he wasn't able to clean himself out, so he started getting blocked up. When he got stronger he didn't need help anymore, and he started passing those large poop balls (I feel so bad for male pigs-that must be excruciating!) about one or two a day. Now it is one a day, and I noticed last night that the regular poops are smaller. When he needed help pushing it out, he never gave me a hard time. Now when I try to check his pooper, he gives me a hard time. I gave him a little mineral oil last night to see if it would help. I don't think there has been any change.

~ada

User avatar
Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sat Nov 23, 2002 2:44 pm


Read the page on impaction and perhaps get some help examining and cleaning him.

www.guinealynx.info/impaction.html

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