Diarrhea + fit

Charybdis

Post   » Tue Feb 22, 2005 4:46 pm


Thanks, Leebee. I think the eye is bothering her. We are going to the opthamologist (he better have an answer, for 200$) in about half an hour.

I think the obesity is part of her pain problem, too. She is 1100 grams in a 900 gram frame. The weight on her rear is probably aggravating the arthritis in her back and hips. I set her down on the counter and elevated her rear end a bit, and she blinked slowly a few times--her subtle sign that she likes something.

Charybdis

Post   » Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:03 pm


Just got back from the eye doctor. It was very educational. She says that Meg's eyes have osseous metaplasia; basically, bone growing over the eye. Meg also has cataracts in both eyes but she does not have Glaucoma.

The vet thinks that Meg is totally blind (she has no PLR) and that may be why she is so afraid when out of the cage. She must know me by scent, because when I reached out to pet her during the exam she tried to run to me and crawl up my sleeve. This explains why she does that weird thing with her head -- she is always raising it up and tilting it at an angle when she is in a strange place, probably trying to smell and hear familiar things.

The vet was very thorough and knowledgeable. The first thing that she asked me was whether or not I was feeding the appropriate hay. She had never seen this condition in guinea pigs firsthand, only in books (they only see about 6 guinea pigs per year). So she finds this case very interesting and wants to investigate the cause from 3 separate angles.

First, they are doing an ultrasound on her eyes early tomorrow morning. I didn't even know that you could ultrasound the eyes. This is to look for any soft tissue problems that may be pushing the left eye out, such as tumors.

She also wants to evaluate Meg's diet for deficiencies. So I have to get the vitamin and mineral content of her veggies to bring tomorrow. She thought it was possible that the restricted diet was deficient in some way.

Then, I am supposed to take Meg for dental x rays, which may not be possible. We might have to settle for skulls rads. This is to rule out elongated roots, which could push the eye out, or I guess an infected tooth root can cause inflammation in the eye/nasal area.

The exam and eye drops were only $129 and they are doing the ultrasound at no charge. I think this is because I do rescue and also they find Meg's case interesting.

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sus4rabbitsnpigs

Post   » Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:27 pm


That's interesting. Poor thing. Does she have a cagemate?

Bandit does that head thing, but he has one eye.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Tue Feb 22, 2005 11:41 pm


This sounds really encouraging, Chary, esp. from the standpoint of learning something. I sure hope in the end poor little Meg is helped and that this eye vet learns too.

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leebee

Post   » Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:45 am


Wow. Sounds like a great specialist. I'm so glad you went, I think I would have been put off by the exorbitant fee they quoted.

These Monterey pigs really have the gamut of medical issues, don't they?

Charybdis

Post   » Wed Feb 23, 2005 3:14 am


Of course. Once one illness is conquered, Meg manages to cook up another. She is a very tough girl, though.

She has a roommate, Madison (Charandmin's pig with the head tilt). I gave Madison a bath today after which Meg was following her around very curiously. I think Meg suspected that there was a new pig in the cage.

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Pigglies

Post   » Wed Feb 23, 2005 3:21 am


Wow. Good luck. Sounds like a very educational day and a great specialist.

Hope all goes well for Meg, she is such a fighter.

Charybdis

Post   » Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:48 pm


This has been a long day. We went to the vet at 8:30 for the ultrasound. They did not find any soft tissue growths behind Meggie's eye -- so it probably isn't tumors.

Then they did this test (whose name I cannot recall) that measures activity on the retina. They had to put contact lenses on her to do the test, isn't that wild? This is to confirm her blindness. Their preliminary findings are that she does not have any retinal activity. They are going to give me a report tomorrow.

Now here is the thing I am not sure about. The eye doctor called an animal dentist who also works in the same business park (it is all pet specialists and an ER). This vet said that he could take dental x rays, but they want to sedate her by injection. I'm not too keen on this idea. They don't have an ISO chamber so they would have to mask her. The eye doctor says that the equipment they have for ISO is too big for Meg. Also, the vet is pregnant so she doesn't want to expose herself to the gas.

It seems a bit risky to me to have two non-exotics vets sedate a 5+ year old pig by injection. If something happened to her I would never forgive myself. However, my vet is not capable of doing dental x rays.

Any thoughts?

Josephine
Little Jo Wheek

Post   » Wed Feb 23, 2005 5:06 pm


I would be worried as well. I don't like using injectables on cavies in general and certainly not on pigs over 5 years of age. It is riskier and harder to reverse anesthesia should there be a problem. I would consider Meg to be higher risk than most pigs due to her age and history. I understand the vet's concern with masking an animal down and exposing herself to the iso. It could seriously injure her baby and even cause premature abortion/labor. One of the RVTs where I work has been using a respirator throughout her pregnancy successfully. It's ugly and hot in there, but she is able to do her job as an anesthetist and is safer for the baby. She's about 7 months along now.

I would see if someone else could do the rads. There has got to be a better way.

Is Meg very wiggly? Do they have digital dental x-rays? If they have the digital equipment (we do, but don't tx exotics), it might be feasible to do them without anesthesia or even with giving her some narcotics (buprenorphine or butorphanol) for sedation. Some pigs will be too wiggly, though. If they do "old school" radiography, she would most likely have to be anesthetized since they have to stick dental film in her mouth--not very comfy.

Josephine
Little Jo Wheek

Post   » Wed Feb 23, 2005 5:17 pm


I also wonder if osseous metaplasia is the same as osseous choriostomas? I do have one sow (5-6 years+) affected bilaterally (and sightless, I believe) and another sow (7+ years) has just started to show signs in the corner of her right eye.

Charybdis

Post   » Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:46 pm


I tried researching that with not a lot of luck. One site said that choristomas were "grossly visible proliferation of normal tissues in abnormal locations." http://24.21.238.18/~dhickman/cm521.htm
Whereas the Web Dictionary said that metaplasia is defined by "conversion of one kind of tissue into a form that is not normal for that tissue."

Sounds the same to me. My camera isn't good enough to photograph it, but maybe Pigglies will on Saturday. It's really beyond the usual age effects you see in guinea pig eyes.

Yes, the dental x rays are done by digital imaging. I wish my vet had this capability. But he can do skull x rays and we have seen elongated roots on these. I think I will tell this vet thank you, but no. Meg is very stoic so wriggling wouldn't be too much of a problem; but I'm not even comfortable with them administering narcotics. She is far too precious to me.

Charybdis

Post   » Sun Feb 27, 2005 6:27 am


Pigglies took a photo of Meg's eye

The hair is greasy because of ointment. Whatever this is, it is rapidly progressing. And she still looks as if she is not feeling well and listing somewhat to the side, only when she is lying down but upright. She is eating and maintaining her weight (unfortunately) but her eye is looking worse every day.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Sun Feb 27, 2005 10:58 am


Let me know if I can copy the pic to the forum/site. It is pretty clear and illustrates the problem.

Josephine
Little Jo Wheek

Post   » Sun Feb 27, 2005 3:35 pm


Yep. That's exactly what my pigs have. I think, but am not 100% sure that osseous choriostomas and metaplasia are two words for the same problem. I have no idea which term is in vogue, but most of my references state choriostoma.

I've searched and searched. I'll try posting on VSPN (the non-DVM companion site to VIN).

Charybdis

Post   » Sun Feb 27, 2005 3:59 pm


Lynx, yes you can copy it.

Josephine, please let me know if you find anything out. It is progressing far more quickly than I would consider to be normal, worse now than when the eye doctor saw her last Thursday.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Sun Feb 27, 2005 6:18 pm


Thanks.
Image

Josephine
Little Jo Wheek

Post   » Sat Mar 05, 2005 8:26 pm


I'm getting some info hopefully on this eye. We'll see. I've asked some people from the VSPN/VIN boards to comment.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Sat Mar 05, 2005 9:49 pm


I thought I had seen something similar.

It looks like figure 39-7 on page 426 in the new Quesenberry and Carpenter book - Ferrets, Rabbits and Rodents Clinical Medicine and Surgery - 2nd Edition. It is identified as:
"Osseous metaplasia of the mesectodermal trabecular meshwork in a guinea pig. White opaque material is present in the iridocorneal angle. (From Brown C, Donnely T: What's your diagnosis? Heterotropic bone in the eyes of a guinea pig, Lab Anim 2002; 31:23-25.)"

Josephine
Little Jo Wheek

Post   » Sat Mar 05, 2005 10:26 pm


Ahh... I don't have that one yet. I have the old one. Just another book to add to my neverending list. Every couple of years you have to buy the updated and revised version.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Sat Mar 05, 2005 10:37 pm


They've added a few things but some is the same. Does knowing what it likely is help figuring out how to treat it? Do you have any ideas?

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